Are you ready for the Army to replace the M4 with the NGSW (6.8mm)?

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Remember when the Scar was for sure replacing the M4? That gun even used the same mags and cartridge.

I see the SAW replacement as having a much more likely chance of actually being fielded than the M4 replacement. Though Sigs rifle and round will help with supply chain a bit more as their round is based off the 7.62 NATO case.
 
.455_Hunter said:
I will believe it when non-tip-of-the-spear units actually get something besides the M16/M4 platform.
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most likely the support units will have M4s then a PDW based on the M4 in 7.62x35 with a 9" barrel and folding stock. The support units do not need to be able to hit out to 1000 meters. 300m is enough and the 7.62x35 will do that as well be suppressed or replace pistols.
 
C-grunt said:
Remember when the Scar was for sure replacing the M4? That gun even used the same mags and cartridge.

I see the SAW replacement as having a much more likely chance of actually being fielded than the M4 replacement. Though Sigs rifle and round will help with supply chain a bit more as their round is based off the 7.62 NATO case.
Click to expand...

We saw this with the XM8. That is when we noticed that there has only been one exception since the Revolutionary War where we got a new weapon but not a new cartridge.

As soon as we saw that they were developing a new cartridge in 6.8mm we knew we were getting a new system.
 
N9NWO said:
most likely the support units will have M4s then a PDW based on the M4 in 7.62x35 with a 9" barrel and folding stock. The support units do not need to be able to hit out to 1000 meters. 300m is enough and the 7.62x35 will do that as well be suppressed or replace pistols.
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Sounds like the M1 Carbine, Part II.
 
The General Dynamic entry is the most interesting technically speaking as they are submitting one gun to replace both the M4 and the SAW (Textron and Sig are offering two different weapons). It fires from the close bolt in semi-auto and open bolt in full auto. It's a bull pup configuration (yark) but otherwise reminiscent of the German FG42 in its function and capabilities. It is also using a polymer cartridge from True Velocity and unlike True Velocity's other cartridge that are simply polymer versions of conventual cartridge the 6.8 cartridge developed for the NGSW has a unique neck that appears to be optimized for the polyer-case.

If I was to put odds on that chance this program results in Big Army changing from the M16/M4 I think I would give it about 25% chance. We have seen the army try to change away from the M16/M4/5.56x45 many many times in that past few decades and they have always failed to follow through for a variety of reason, the biggest one being the supply chain.
 
N9NWO said:
except this time it is official. it will happen this fall.
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Do you have insider info on that?

The testing is still ongoing and they havent even settled on one design for real world testing yet.

Also remember the 6.8 SPC was made to replace the 5.56.... So we have recent history of a new round being developed and not adopted.
 
mcb said:
The General Dynamic entry is the most interesting technically speaking as they are submitting one gun to replace both the M4 and the SAW (Textron and Sig are offering two different weapons). It fires from the close bolt in semi-auto and open bolt in full auto. It's a bull pup configuration (yark) but otherwise reminiscent of the German FG42 in its function and capabilities. It is also using a polymer cartridge from True Velocity and unlike True Velocity's other cartridge that are simply polymer versions of conventual cartridge the 6.8 cartridge developed for the NGSW has a unique neck that appears to be optimized for the polyer-case.

If I was to put odds on that chance this program results in Big Army changing from the M16/M4 I think I would give it about 25% chance. We have seen the army try to change away from the M16/M4/5.56x45 many many times in that past few decades and they have always failed to follow through for a variety of reason, the biggest one being the supply chain.
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I think the Sig has the best chance of winning the rifle program. The General Dynamics model is a bullpup which I dont see happening. The Textron has a weird forward ejection system that I think is going to become troublesome in testing when the rifles are on the ground, on some support, or fired from an awkward position. The Sig is basically an AR10 (I know the operating system is a lot different) which will have the handling characteristics of a standard rifle Soldiers are used to.
 
C-grunt said:
Do you have insider info on that?

The testing is still ongoing and they havent even settled on one design for real world testing yet.

Also remember the 6.8 SPC was made to replace the 5.56.... So we have recent history of a new round being developed and not adopted.
Click to expand...


They have three finalists. From the testing this spring they will select one design.

And yes this has been everywhere. The key is that we are getting a new caliber. That is what separates this from previous concept guns that the Army asks for every so often.
 
C-grunt said:
I think the Sig has the best chance of winning the rifle program. The General Dynamics model is a bullpup which I dont see happening. The Textron has a weird forward ejection system that I think is going to become troublesome in testing when the rifles are on the ground, on some support, or fired from an awkward position. The Sig is basically an AR10 (I know the operating system is a lot different) which will have the handling characteristics of a standard rifle Soldiers are used to.
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The money is one SIG. They have replaced Colt and FN as the dominate military source in small arms.

Look at their idea of a PDW. it might be the weapon for support troops
https://www.sigsauer.com/sig-mcx-rattler-sbr.html
 
This has been mis-reported so many times that it's beyond counting at this point.

The Army wants a 6.8 for the new Squad Automatic Weapon. And for the SAW only.

The rest of the Squad is to retain 5.56 weapons.

The SAW, by Doctrine, is meant to provide either offensive or defensive fires beyond the reach of the Squad's organic weapons. Going to 6.8 ammo gives better range and end effects, which is the raison d'etre for a SAW. The current 249, in 5.56 only really gives 50 or 100 more meters' range over the rest of the weapons. And the rate of fire not that much different, either.

The Marines went to a sort-of all SAW equipment; but the Army is having none of it. While there will be complications is supplying a separate SAW ammo caliber; there were and are issues with specialized SAW packed ammo right now (it's supplied in boxes of 100 & 200 rounds in belts).
 
N9NWO said:
They have three finalists. From the testing this spring they will select one design.

And yes this has been everywhere. The key is that we are getting a new caliber. That is what separates this from previous concept guns that the Army asks for every so often.
Click to expand...

So do you have any actual info besides news articles? I have several friends and former officers who work in Army R&D and procurement and they aren't certain on this project. The 6.8 SPC was a new cartridge designed specifically for the military too and last I checked we are still using 5.56.
 
C-grunt said:
So do you have any actual info besides news articles? I have several friends and former officers who work in Army R&D and procurement and they aren't certain on this project. The 6.8 SPC was a new cartridge designed specifically for the military too and last I checked we are still using 5.56.
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Look up the 277 Fury. It is a 6.8x51 developed by SIG for this contest.

The Army is being closed mouth about this. There are official articles
https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-item/fws-cs-2/
 
CapnMac said:
This has been mis-reported so many times that it's beyond counting at this point.

The Army wants a 6.8 for the new Squad Automatic Weapon. And for the SAW only.

The rest of the Squad is to retain 5.56 weapons.

The SAW, by Doctrine, is meant to provide either offensive or defensive fires beyond the reach of the Squad's organic weapons. Going to 6.8 ammo gives better range and end effects, which is the raison d'etre for a SAW. The current 249, in 5.56 only really gives 50 or 100 more meters' range over the rest of the weapons. And the rate of fire not that much different, either.

The Marines went to a sort-of all SAW equipment; but the Army is having none of it. While there will be complications is supplying a separate SAW ammo caliber; there were and are issues with specialized SAW packed ammo right now (it's supplied in boxes of 100 & 200 rounds in belts).
Click to expand...

The rifle is for combat arms at the beginning. It is doubtful that support troops will be issued as they tend to engage at less than 300m. Thus a PDW would be better.
 
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