Are you shooting to temporarily stop or to eliminate the threat?

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Enginetech88

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After reading the thread about carrying FMJs I came across something that made me think. I have heard alot of people say "a dead man cant tell his side of the story". I have also heard alot of people say "just stop the threat by shooting him in the leg or arm" I know every situation is different. And laws are different everywheres. But what do you guys plan on doing or have in your mind. If you know if you shoot the guy with the gun in the arm or hand he will drop the gun; do you do it? Or do you go for center mass and take the BG right out? Just curious on what your guys take is. Josh
 
If the "bad guy" has a gun it is has become a life or death situation for me. I do not intend to try some fancy shot to hit the "bad guy" in the arm or leg, I intend to go for center mass to eliminate the threat to my life or the life of my loved ones!

Also in this litigious society in which we live the "bad guy" if wounded, will be in court trying to take everything you own. Its bad enough that the "bad guys" family will try to do the same thing if you take him out.
 
If you know if you shoot the guy with the gun in the arm or hand he will drop the gun
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How could I possibly know that? Also, I can't hit a moving arm or hand. The missed shot would just go some place I don't want it to. Aim COM, and shoot until the threat is no longer a threat. I'm not sure what it means to "temporarily stop the threat. Are we supposed to reengage at a later time?
Those who say, "just stop the threat by shooting him in the leg or arm" will be unable to do either.
 
My goal in lawfully applying lethal force in a self defense situation is to stop the felonious threat by aiming center chest to protect my family or myself from serious bodily harm or death.

I would not try to target an appendage because they are smaller targets, and would more likely be moving, which would increase the probability of missing, and decrease my chances of protecting my family or self from said felonious threat.
 
Shoot to stop the threat. That said, your best chance of doing so is to shoot COM. If you are shooting to "temporarily stop" you can try for the legs. If you are shooting to "eliminate the threat" you can try for the head. Good luck!
 
GrayGhost said:
Also in this litigious society in which we live the "bad guy" if wounded, will be in court trying to take everything you own.
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Thankfully, in Texas, this is no longer an issue and the imunity from civil penalty doesn't depend on who brings the suit. So, even a decedant's angry heirs can't sue you up.

As of 9-1-07:
Texas Civil Practice & Remedies Code § 83.001. said:
CIVIL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.
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Further, the defendant (read: "shooter" in this case) can recover all court and council fees from the plaintiff after they lose their doomed civil case.

To the OP:

I will shoot an attacker to make them stop attacking me and will continue to shoot until that happens. The nature of the employ of deadly force makes it a possibility that the attacker could die from the wounds that I intend to inflict but, that's not really a concern of mine.
 
A gun is a lethal weapon, period. If you wish to insure that what you're aiming at doesn't die, then you shouldn't be using a gun. If your life is in danger then the first thing you should think about is stopping the immediate threat to your life; if stopping the immediate threat to your life is not your first thought then your life is not in danger, and it will be viewed this way in court.

What would shooting someone intentionally in the arms or legs do, anyway? Unless you're using some kind of massive cannon that can take the arms right off, they still have the capacity to fire back at you. And when a fraction of a second can mean life or death, do you really want to waste shots on something that won't help?

You start shooting when an immediate threat to your life is present, and you stop shooting when the threat is over. Simple. Sometimes it takes one shot, sometimes it takes 20 shots, sometimes it takes 0 shots. But you never shoot someone "A little bit", immediate danger and putting the danger at bay always go together.
 
just stop the threat by shooting him in the leg or arm
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Just FYI, this is a terrible, stupid, and dangerous idea. It will in all likelihood get you KILLED.

1) Hitting an arm or leg is very difficult. They are narrow and moving targets. Aim center mass...ever notice how practice targets often are missing the arms or legs??
2) Hitting an arm or leg is just as likely to kill the BG as anywhere else since arms and legs have these things called arteries in them.
3) If the person is dangerous enough that you need to shoot, shoot to kill.
 
I have always been trained to shoot to eliminate the threat if it is a life threatening situation. Since legally you can't shoot a threat without it being life threatening...
 
I agree with all you guys. Center mass without a doubt. I jsut know I have heard both ways. Kinda hoping someone here had a reason behind the secondary way of thought. Thanks
 
You shoot to stop the threat.

Granted, the best way to stop a threat is the use of lethal force, however making the statement to LEO's that you were "shooting to eliminate the threat" could get you in some hot water.
 
ENGINETECH88 - "I have also heard alot of people say "just stop the threat by shooting him in the leg or arm" ... If you know if you shoot the guy with the gun in the arm or hand he will drop the gun; do you do it?"
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That's movie and teeeveee nonsense. Works great on screen but in real life, it'll get you killed. Besides, when bullets are heading your way, you'll not be nearly as accurate as you are when shooting paper, so C.O.M. is the only logical target.

Example of an actual incident of which I know. A friend of mine, now deceased (old age), was a Robbery-Homicide detective with LAPD, working out of the old Hollywood Div. He had a warrant on a dude and when he went to arrest hm, the dude pulled a gun. So did my friend. At that time, LAPD issued the S&W 10, 14, and 15, .38 Spec., to its officers. My friend was carrying the standard S&W 15, 4" bbl.

He told me they were about 12 feet or so, apart. He began moving laterally as he shot and the bad guy was jumping around, shooting at him. He said, "I was trying to kill him and he was trying to kill me."

The bad guy fired six and missed all six. My friend fired five, missing the first four and with his fifth .38 round, trying to hit the bad guy center mass, hit him through the right knee, blowing it out and immediately putting the bad guy on the ground. Fight was over.

He told me also that the entire shooting sequence happened in about five or six seconds.

Point is, with people moving and lead flying, sometimes what you hope happens, C.O.M., doesn't happen. So being so cool and accurate as to "just shoot the gun out of the bad guy's hand," or "Shoot him in the leg or arm," ain't a great plan. It's hard enough to hit ......

C.O.M.

L.W.
 
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I don't want to temporarily stop the threat. I want to PERMANENTLY stop the threat. I don't want it to stop for a moment. I want it to stop period.

If you are in a situaltion where you feel an arm or a leg shot is sufficient, you are evidently NOT in a life or death situation.

I don't know about where you live, but where I'm from, shooting someone without being in fear of your life is a felony.

If you are trying to hit someone in the arm or leg, you are evidently not afraid of being killed. Therefore, you are committing a violent felony and should be imprisoned with the other violent felons.
 
plus another one for shooting center mass repeatedly till the threat stops being a threat. how it subsequently turns out (permanently or temporarily) makes no odds to me in the moment; the point where you decide to open fire is the point beyond return. Shooting people in the arm/leg etc is complete tv related crap; the chances of having time to aim such shots in real life will be slim. and if you do have time, there are better places to be aiming.
 
I keep my gun loaded with FMJ so as to just fire on and scare off anyone breaking into my house. If he fires back and doesn't run, then I'll hit him.

I'd rather temporarily stop the threat if this society wasn't so screwed up, and the guy breaking into your house could come back and file a lawsuit against you if you shot him in the leg and he lived.
 
I keep my gun loaded with FMJ so as to just fire on and scare off anyone breaking into my house. If he fires back and doesn't run, then I'll hit him.
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What? If he fires back, you could immediately enter eternity.
I need a little 'splaining on that one.
 
Growing up in a legal and LE family, my prepared answer is - "I discharged my weapon until the deadly threat was stopped. I was protecting myself/family from harm." Of course, I wouldn't say that until my lawyer was there!
 
Well, it wasn't so thought out, but basically the way my house is laid out, my room is actually an office with those folding-ish doors. I can look through the crack (we leave a light on right inside the front door) and I can see if the guy is armed.

If it's clear it's just some kid, I'd just walk out and tell him to stop. If he decides to pull out a knife or does something stupid, I'd just fire one towards him, and not hit him. If he pulls out a gun, I'd shoot at him.

So that top one was a "what if" of two scenarios - shoot to scare off, or shoot to injure but not kill.
 
Stop the threat by shooting center of mass. If they stop and die, that sucks for both people. If they live, maybe they'll think twice next time.
 
I'm shooting to scare the bad guy away. I'll keep shooting until I scare him away. That's why I have the Crimson Trace laser on my hd gun. I'm counting on the red laser dot on his chest to scare him away.

I plan on aiming for COM, because, like the experienced LEO mentioned above, chances are I'll miss. Since I'm shooting to scare him away, any hit while aiming COM is accidental.

If the bad guy flees or stops, fine. If he dies, well, it's an unfortunate accident. I was only trying to scare him away.
 
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