Arizona moves to allow concealed guns in bars

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I haven't seen this posted yet. I'm curious what you all think about this. If you were a bar owner, would you allow Concealed carry in your place?

Edit: I don't think the nonsense in the first paragraph applies, because this bill would not allow the armed people to drink. However, I'm not sure what to think about this. In any case, Arizona is light years ahead of my home state of Illinois on the issue of gun rights. God bless you.


PHOENIX – There was a time in the Wild West that cowboys had to check their guns before they could pull up a bar stool for a drink — rules that protected against the saloon gunfights that came to define the frontier era in places like Arizona.

But a bill moving through the Arizona Legislature has some bar owners fearful that the state is turning back the clock to the Old West. Lawmakers are considering a bill that would allow anyone with a concealed-weapons permit to bring a handgun into bars and restaurants serving alcohol.

The bill gives bars discretion to keep gun-toting patrons out, and anyone with a weapon would not be allowed to drink. But the bill has angered bar owners who believe booze and guns are a recipe for disaster.

"This might be one of the stupidest things that I have heard of," said Mike Nelson, who owns Pomeroy's bar in Phoenix and plans to post a sign on his front door outlawing guns in his bar as soon as possible. "Can you think of a single reason guns and alcohol should be intertwined?"

The bill is part of a nationwide push by the National Rifle Association. Georgia passed a similar law in 2008, as did Tennessee earlier this year in becoming the 40th state to allow bar or restaurant patrons to carry guns.

"These laws are common sense," said NRA spokeswoman Rachel Parsons. "Restaurants are not immune to criminal activity. Law-abiding people — regardless of whether they're in restaurants, cars or homes — they should be able to protect themselves against criminal attack."

One of the bill's sponsors, Republican Rep. John Kavanagh, said it's about time Arizona passes such a law, and that the most important thing is that people carrying guns into bars aren't allowed to drink.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090628/ap_on_re_us/us_guns_in_bars
 
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"This might be one of the stupidest things that I have heard of," said Mike Nelson, who owns Pomeroy's bar in Phoenix and plans to post a sign on his front door outlawing guns in his bar as soon as possible. "Can you think of a single reason guns and alcohol should be intertwined?"


Cause its more manly digging out a logged Colt .45 slug in your thigh with your heated Bowie knife if you buddy is pouring on a bottle of rot gut vs. a bottle of Isopropel alcohol?

Cause it would be a lot less cooler if Clint shot that bounty hunter right after he says, "I had to come back." and Clint says, "I know." if he was drinking a glass of tea?



hell, I could go in all night with this.....
 
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If you were a bar owner in Utah, you wouldn't have a choice. Other than you can refuse to serve anyone for any reason. But it's not against the law to carry in a bar here. I got wanded at a club and had to take my gun back to the trunk.
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I didn't know that. I thought Arizona was breaking new ground here. If you guys aren't having a substantial amount of bar shootings, then Arizona shouldn't have much to worry about either.
 
They do this every year, it's not "guns in bars", it's allowing responsible CCW permit holders to carry in resteraunts that happen to serve alcohol, and refrain from drinking while carrying. There are many resteraunts we cannot patronize because of this, that we would like to, but due to this restriction, we cannot. The left demonizes it every time.
 
If you were a bar owner, would you allow Concealed carry in your place?
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I generally think firearms and alcohol are pretty much a safety hazard, wherever they are mixed.

Though I'm not opposed to carry in bars per se.


However, I am opposed to drinking and carrying. Carry in a bar all you want, but leave the alcohol alone if you do. You can be the "designated carry" and your friends can drink.


I think that so long as there are insanely strict punishments that are upheld for people who drink and carry, then I'm for carry in bars. After all, why punish the upstanding citizen? Just punish those who choose to not be.
 
Its a good idea because it would allow you to carry into a restaurant that serves alcohol. And on top of that, there is always a legal operating limit on firearms. SO, if the person was over this limit they are breaking the law by having the gun on them then.

What if some guy gets pissed off and goes home for his gun without anyone armed in the bar, he can line them up and exterminate everyone in the place. And if he was planing on killin people then he doesnt give a **** about the no guns in bars law.
 
Colorado has no prohibition, and I've enjoyed this particular freedom many times. It's about as insane of an idea as letting people drive cars at 60mph in opposite directions just feet away from each other with nothing seperating them.

I haven't pulled my gun out at a bar and caused trouble yet for the same reason that I haven't swerved into the other lane just as another car is approaching me; it's not in anyone's best interest, especially mine.
 
I wish Michigan allowed this. I go to the bar quite often, but refrain from drinking. It's a nice place to play pool with friend and other things. They all carry as well, and it's pretty tedious to have us all lock our weapons up before going in. Being the designated driver and carrier is a great idea.
 
Not much "blood in the streets" here in PA. No prohibition. You can carry in any bar or restaurant and have a beer when carrying, too -- no problem.

Don't be DRUNK. If you can keep it straight with your car, you can keep it straight with your gun.

Seriously, the idea of drunks with guns really gets people nervous. In reality, it just doesn't prove to be a problem.

-Sam
 
I live in a resort town in AZ, Lake Havasu City and have CCW permit. There has been a lot of talk in the local paper regarding this and a few restaurant/bars have admitted that they will not allow CCW's. Its been great as I have been able to compile a list of these non-amendment supporters and distribute to the many CCW's and supporters of our rights in town. We have all "banned" their establishments. Keep it up owners so we can hopefully cost you money and hopefully drive you out of business. Best yet one of these morons have been robbed, namely the Red Robin, what a idiot!
 
I mean, one thing I don't get about this debate is that it isn't illegal to have had several drinks and carry (say I have several beers, then my wife drives me to the grocery store while I'm armed), but it is illegal for me to be 100% stone sober in a Denny's that serves beer.
 
One of the Prime Directives of gun ownership: Alcohol and guns don't mix!
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Like most statements that can be boiled down to fit on a t-shirt or bumper-sticker, this misses the point by a mile. And it's the kind of thoughtless snap-judgement that gets laws like this on the books in the first place.

No alcohol at the range? Fine. No alcohol before hunting or target shooting? Ok. Those are both exemplary personal policies that we can all agree to follow. Can't carry in a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol? Uh, no, that's stupid.

Alcohol -- especially just the presence of it nearby -- doesn't turn the CCW licensed citizen into a homicidal maniac. Nor does it make him/her a dangerous public menace. In a self-defense shooting situation, the presence of alcohol (in the area, and especially in the shooter's blood) raises the level of scrutiny significantly, but a justified shooting is still legitimate self-defense. I didn't check my right to life and the defense of my family at the door when I walked into Applebees. Nor did I when I had a Sam Adams with dinner.

But, when we "gun folks" toss off such "Prime Directives" as though they were to-the-point answers to such situations, we just drive nails in our own coffins.
:(
[Sigh.]

-Sam
 
PA doesnt have a lot of bar shootings. There happen to be some shootings at bars or right outside, but 99% of the people did not have a LTCF and the gun was stolen and had the serial scratched off. Most responsible gun owners and more specifically, the people who carry regularly, will not get drunk while carrying. Of course, there are exceptions but they probably shouldn't have been allowed to carry in the first place.
 
Ohio has HB 203 in the works again also. Hopefully it will make it through.
It is pretty silly that we have to leave our handgun in the car while we go into a restaurant which serves beer. Extrapolate the worst case and: The gun is stolen from the car, the thief decides to rob the restaurant also....now your car is damaged and both your gun and your wallet are stolen...if you were lucky. But everyone is safe from the sober man with a CHL who just wanted a burger at Applebees with his family.
At least it's better now here than it was a year ago. Then I could not carry into the grocery store or a Stop'n'Go that sold beer on Sunday...due to the "class D" alcohol vending license restriction. That got changed last September.
 
Drunkenness and guns don't mix well; I never handle guns when I'm drunk, they stay right in the holster where they belong, whether I'm wearing the holster or not. I don't know why everyone assumes drinking means getting drunk.

As to the potential law change for Arizona: it's about time. Adjacent states such as Colorado or Utah have no problem recognizing that leaving guns in cars is a bad idea.

From a practical standpoint the law won't change much behavior. Criminals don't care about the current law, and those who would otherwise not be criminals except for the current prohibition often 'forget' that they are carrying. If they can't forget, well, maybe they need a better holster ;-)
 
I think it's safe to say the vast majority of CC permit holders don't go get sloshed when carrying. We had this issue brought up in VA, trying to get restaurant CC legal. Currently you still have to open carry if you want to have a steak at Texas Roadhouse.
 
Carrying and Alcohol

My statement about "guns and alcohol not mixing" relates to carrying AND consuming alcohol not about being in a restaurant that serves alcohol! I see no reason for a person who goes into a BAR or TAVERN TO CONSUME ALCOHOL to be carrying a firearm. I don't believe that even off duty law enforcement officers should carry while drinking alcohol.
 
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I don't understand why my ability to defend myself should be constrained by the fact I have had a drink or two.
 
I live in AZ. I contacted the bar owner in an azcentral hit piece on the bill. This a-hole tells me he's an avid gun owner, but doesn't want guns in his bar. "It'll be chaos". He then said to have some balls and open carry into his bar :eek: I told him I don't carry a gun to intimidate or threaten anyone, and that he is making the assumption gun owners want to start fights.

Guy really pissed me off. Said I'd never frequent his sports bar. The notion he had was that guns and alcohol never should mix. On top of this, the penalties weren't enough for him if someone was drinking and had a gun on them.

In the end, I told him he was a hoplophobe and that he was no friend to gun owners. It's ok for the owner to pack, but not me. Forget it.
 
Carrying and Alcohol Part 2

I support the right to carry and I even believe that if someone can legally own a firearm that they should be able to carry concealed without a license. I also believe that there are times when it's better to leave the gun at home.
Alcohol clouds the better judgment of all of us. The best way to avoid getting into a situation that might compromise our safety is to be aware of our surroundings at all times.

If you do get into a situation that requires you to draw your weapon to defend yourself, you can bet that you are going to be put under a microscope by the police, district attorneys trying to make a name for themselves and lawyers trying to make a fast buck!

Having consumed alcohol and then shooting someone is going to raise a lot of red flags all around. Even if no charges are brought against you because it was determined that the shooting was justifiable, you can probably bet a civil lawsuit will be brought against you. What if you get an anti gun jury?
 
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