Armed guards protect drug plantations

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Preacherman

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From the Billings Gazette (http://www.billingsgazette.com/inde...3/12/16/build/nation/65-marijuannagrowers.inc):

Pot guards endanger land users
Associated Press

SACRAMENTO, Calif. - Mexican cartels have taken over much of California's marijuana farming, boosting both the potency of the drug and the propensity for violence from armed guards protecting the crop, the nation's drug czar said Monday.

They're planting huge marijuana plots on public lands, creating a growing danger to hikers and hunters stumbling into the line of fire, said John Walters, director of National Drug Control Policy, in advance of appearances today in Reno and South Lake Tahoe, Nev.

California's Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement estimated that 84 percent of plants seized this year were controlled by Mexican gangs, in what the bureau called "a major strategic and organizational shift" from recent decades.

"Many people think of marijuana growing as just run by a bunch of guys who are Cheech and Chong in the movies, kind of fun-loving guys," Walters said in an interview with The Associated Press. "These are violent organizations. They're using violence without hesitation - it's part of doing business to them."

The multibillion-dollar Mexican cartels have discovered it's safer and more profitable to grow marijuana in the United States than to try to smuggle it across the border, he said. Instead, they're often importing guards and handing them firearms with orders to shoot at anyone coming by.

They're also branching into methamphetamine production, often using what authorities have dubbed "super labs." And this summer authorities for the first time discovered 40,000 opium poppies growing in a remote area of the Sierra National Forest bordering Yosemite National Park. The poppy plants originated in Mexico, Drug Enforcement Administration spokesman Richard Meyer said Monday.

"The public lands have become a preferred area of operation for these organizations that are increasingly violent and sophisticated," Walters said. "People think they're hiking in a remote wilderness area, and they come across these plots or these labs and they're run by armed and violent criminals."

Three-fourths of the marijuana gardens discovered by California authorities this year were on public lands like state and national parks and forests. As recently as 2001, the majority of plants were seized from private land.

California's recent harvest season was one of the most violent in years.

In just one deadly week in September, law enforcement officials in Northern California fatally shot four armed guards protecting marijuana plantations. San Luis Obispo County sheriff's deputies were shot at as they entered a garden; a hunter walking near a marijuana grove in Los Padres National Forest was shot at by three men armed with automatic weapons; and guards tending a Ventura County garden shot at a backcountry hunter.

Federal, state and local drug agents are working up models that can better predict where the drugs will be grown or made, Walters said. In addition, the U.S. Forest Service, National Park Service and Bureau of Land Management are making drug enforcement a bigger priority, which he said should make next year a record year for fighting drug activity on public lands.

Twelve California raids netted seizures of at least 10,000 plants this year, and one plantation had more than 70,000 plants. The average raid resulted in a seizure of 2,500 plants. The CAMP program seized a record 466,054 plants this year - up 100,000 plants from last year with a street value law enforcement officials estimated at $1.9 billion. They also seized 50 weapons.

State and federal agents said growers are using a higher grade marijuana with much more of the active component tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC.

Marijuana that had a 1 percent concentration of THC in the 1980s and perhaps 4 percent in the 1990s now has a national average of 7 percent to 9 percent. The potency can reach 13 percent to 15 percent in marijuana grown outdoors, and near 30 percent indoors, Walters said.

Those high concentrations mean more profit per pound as well. Marijuana that went for $2,000 a pound in 1983 sells for $4,000 to $10,000 per pound 20 years later.
 
Moral of the story - move to a state that allows carrying of deadly weapons concealed OR open, then whenever hiking on public land, such as National Forests, carry both sidearm and HDR with reloads.....oh, *yawn*, and a cell phone....:eek:
 
And the moral of the story: if you wage an unwinnable War On Drugs that turns simple botanical products into 10,000% profit margin items, don't be surprised if the dealers of said products are willing to break the law *gasp* EVEN FURTHER and protect their governmentally price-controlled crop by force of arms.

[chorus]Thanks, Drug Warriors![/chorus]
 
What a joke. They're causing way more problems than they're solving by keeping the wacky tobacky illegal. That's aside from the moral issues involved in punishing people for behavior that doesn't hurt anyone else. I've never used it and I never will but if I had my way we'd have some form of decriminalization implemented ASAP.
 
Now, if we lived in a more enlightened society- besides not having victimless crime behaviour criminalized anyway- we could have open season on sociopathic drug farmers.

I'll take a hunting license, big game tag, and- oh,yeah- two of those new "farmer tags". And two boxes of thirty-aught.
 
Just because the war is unwinnable, doesn't mean it shouldn't be fought.

The US Army should take a few patrols through that area every couple weeks. Patrol the area by air, spot where the cultivation is... then hit it from the ground. It's really that simple. I did that all up and down central america and it puts a damper on the productivity. If anything it will possibly discourage the future use of the other side of the boarder by those Banditos.
 
not only is this proof of how we are losing, but how futile the whole notion is.

I would rather see those growers have bussiness licenses and pay taxes on that product!
 
The US Army should take a few patrols through that area every couple weeks.
When I was at aviation survival school a couple of years ago there was a marine crew in my class that did just that in California. I forget the name of the inter-service program, but it was used to train troops by having them patrol for drug traffickers. In this case, these guys flew their helo with surveillance equipment to find growing areas, then dropped off a ground patrol to do a sweep. The local LEOs got technology they could otherwise never acquire, and the military personnel got "real world" training opportunities. The program has been pretty severely curtailed since 9/11 as the military has their hands full with other stuff.
 
Just because the war is unwinnable, doesn't mean it shouldn't be fought.

I'm sorry, George, but that statement sounds as pathetically useless as the Democrats do when they involve the US in conflicts of which they are certain we cannot "win", just because they need to "do something".

If a law cannot be enforced, it should not exist. Even the fact that a law can be enforced is not raison d' etre- that's why the Constitution exists.

John
 
If a policy isn't working, has little prospect of ever working, is counterproductive, drains scarce resources from important fields and is of dubious morality in a free society, then we ought to at least think about alternatives to it.
 
First, this isn't just about
simple botanical products
because the folks doing it will move on to another illegal opportunity

They're also branching into methamphetamine production
Second, there are unsolved murders

If a law cannot be enforced, it should not exist.
obviously, we still need a law about that sort of thing...




This is about people who are willing to undertake criminal activity that hurts people, and violates the law. legalization just moves the goal post, it doesn't end the game, and it won't take the folks setting up plantations in the National Forests off the feild.
 
I think the point some of us were making, is that the government has made growing marijuana extremely profitable. No-one would be willing to camp out in the middle of nowhere, and risk death and imprisonment, for a cash crop that's not very valuable.

Does that mean that anyone should be willing to kill for just money? OF course not.
 
If I lived in CA, I'd be tempted to get a legal semi-auto rifle, a valid hunting license, and a like-minded friend or two and go "hunting."

"Officer, we were looking for deer/hogs/squirrels and all of the sudden these guys opened up on us! We had no choice but to shoot back."

I don't think they'd ask any questions once they found the pot plantation.

Opportunity of a lifetime...
 
IMHO we should decrimialize, legalize, nationalize and subsidize narcotics so that street prices are held so low that no one can possibly undercut the price. Even if we have to give the stuff away for free it would be ...

far less expensive,

far less harmful to society,

free up resources,

cut crime way back,

empty our prisons

and cut off the major funding source for terrorists.
 
and the point I'm making is that the cartels, the ones in the article at the beginning of this thread, aren't just about Marijuana, they will continue to use the same tactics for the importation, and production of other drugs, up to and including Meth. Did you also notice
Immigrants are now considered as valuable as narcotics, and many kidnappers are former drug dealers.
From "Smugglers are firing back"






There's nothing wrong with a principaled argument for the legalization of Marijuana, but legalization is not a panacea, it won't cure all, and it won't put the cartels that this thread started out on, out of business.
 
IMHO we should decrimialize, legalize, nationalize and subsidize narcotics so that street prices are held so low that no one can possibly undercut the price. Even if we have to give the stuff away for free it would be ...


There are people out there making Meth with stolen ingredients, in houses that don't belong to them. So to compete, you would be giving it away for free. You believe that would have less costs to society? The massive workplace drug testing regime that employers responded with would be just one of the costly results.
 
The costs of enforcement, prosecution, imprisonment, the breakup of families and the destruction of people's careers over something as stupid as marijuana are more costly than the consequences of its legalization. Do you know how many federal and state agencies there are enforcing the drug laws right now? Dozens of them, and whenever they need more money they just cry "Drug war!" and out come the checkbooks.
 
Do you know how many federal and state agencies there are enforcing the drug laws right now? Dozens of them, and whenever they need more money they just cry "Drug war!" and out come the checkbooks.
The operative phrase here is "Drug", not just Marijuana. If you legalize Marijuana, those same agencies will be out in the national forest dealing with the same cartels over coke, meth, heroin, and the smuggling of illegal immigrants. As I keep pointing out, this thread is not just about marijuana, and its legalization is not a panacea.
 
If it were legalized, then the only people who would be growing it are the fun-loving stoner hippies, who seem pretty okay with giving it away to their friends from time to time, or selling it for a fair price.

Most hippies won't try to slit your throat if you encroach on their operation. They may in fact ask where you got your stuff and discuss the finer points of recreational agriculture.

Legalizing MJ wouldn't be a magic cure for drug related crime, but it would be a start. The first step is to break the dealer-buyer relationship. If pot, which can be grown anywhere very cheaply, were legal to cultivate, the folks who use it wouldn't have any need to see their dealer. When that relationship is broken, there is no way that he can try to influence them to buy stronger, more costly, more profitable drugs. Most recreational drug users would be content to stick with what they know and enjoy.

To put it in gun terms, if you could legally acquire plans, parts, etc. and make your own pistol or revolver for $15 each, you would be very unlikely to go and purchase a slightly better pistol for $500.
 
To put it in gun terms, if you could legally acquire plans, parts, etc. and make your own pistol or revolver for $15 each, you would be very unlikely to go and purchase a slightly better pistol for $500.
There are plenty of people saving significant money building their own rifles under roughly the circumstances you describe, many on this very board, but it hasn't stopped Bushmaster or DSA from selling plenty of whole rifles...
 
I intended to include all of the narcotics, coke, hash, meth, and all the rest. Just plain give it away. Take all of the profit incentive out of it and watch the problems go away. And despite all the cries that it would end up creating more adicts, I doubt that is true. Them what will use them, do so, and making it free would probably reduce the demand, not increase it.
 
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