Armored trk driver has never shot his gun
- Thread starter 41mag
- Start date
- Status
VaughnT
Member
It always amazes me that the population at large thinks people toting guns are somehow trained to use them. I guess it's a symptom of common sense, but it sure isn't reality. Training costs money and you have to weigh the cost against the perceived and/or real need (how many times have I or one of my coworkers needed that sidearm in the five years I've been doing this?)
Also, if you want competent shooters, people who are professional in their dealings, you're going to have to pay for them. That just adds to the cost of doing business.
In most cases, it's far cheaper to pay the one-time death benefits when one of the guys gets killed than it is to shell out for yearly, across the board, training. Sounds harsh, but that's the reality of the situation.
Red_SC, who'd you work for that they give you so much training with ACOG-equipped AR's and M9 pistols? I'd dig a gig like that!
Also, if you want competent shooters, people who are professional in their dealings, you're going to have to pay for them. That just adds to the cost of doing business.
In most cases, it's far cheaper to pay the one-time death benefits when one of the guys gets killed than it is to shell out for yearly, across the board, training. Sounds harsh, but that's the reality of the situation.
Red_SC, who'd you work for that they give you so much training with ACOG-equipped AR's and M9 pistols? I'd dig a gig like that!
Stand_Watie
Member
The vast majority of security guards are neither trained adequately, nor compensated adequately to be expected to use their weapons in anything except their own defense. Employers tend to think of security guards as insurance write-offs.
During my (VERY) brief stint in armed security i had a lot of weirdos ask me about my revolver. I always pretended that i knew nothing about it simply because MOST people that asked fit into one of two categories:
A) They know everything about guns and can think of 10 reasons why mine sucks and will get me killed.
or
B) Ask if i have ever killed anyone, been robbed, was in the army, why i wasnt a cop etc. (stupid questions in other words).
The point is that i didnt get paid enough to talk to the sort of folks that really wanted the ear of an armed rent-a-cop. Not to mention the fact that i was usually busy doing my job (duh, didnt dress like that for fun) and coudnt be bothered. if i was toting around large sums of cash id be especially wary of chatting.
The thing that i learned is MOST (realise that means NOT ALL) people that want to chat up a security guard are very annoying people who noone else will talk to. Think about it, someone is standing an a crowded room and they have to talk to the poor guy that is pay $9 an hour just to stand there who CAN'T LEAVE.
I'm not saying this is the situation at hand (this particular guard sounds like a moron) but, i'm trying to provide a different point of view.
A) They know everything about guns and can think of 10 reasons why mine sucks and will get me killed.
or
B) Ask if i have ever killed anyone, been robbed, was in the army, why i wasnt a cop etc. (stupid questions in other words).
The point is that i didnt get paid enough to talk to the sort of folks that really wanted the ear of an armed rent-a-cop. Not to mention the fact that i was usually busy doing my job (duh, didnt dress like that for fun) and coudnt be bothered. if i was toting around large sums of cash id be especially wary of chatting.
The thing that i learned is MOST (realise that means NOT ALL) people that want to chat up a security guard are very annoying people who noone else will talk to. Think about it, someone is standing an a crowded room and they have to talk to the poor guy that is pay $9 an hour just to stand there who CAN'T LEAVE.
I'm not saying this is the situation at hand (this particular guard sounds like a moron) but, i'm trying to provide a different point of view.
armoredman
Member
I did 8.5 years in armored trucks, and have seen the gamut, from a boss who wouldn't even unholster his Smith model 10 2" to clean the dust off it, to a guy who showed up wearing 5 pistols and an AK with drum and flare launcher. My last company was very into training, though it didn't stop the aforementioned moron from almost shooting himslef in the butt, and another blowing a hole through his hand. Wells Fargo Armored required us to carry a Smith 10 with widowmaker 158 gr LRN. I carried Hydrashok 110, and was almost fired. So, my partner and I carried our revolvers out the door, went aound the corner, and put on our auto rigs. AT let us carry anything that was decent and working - used my Witness there, as well as my CZ75 Compact when working as a supervisor.
BTW, why a revolver? Here is the simplest of reasons - if you shoot an auto out a gunport, the least you will have is a jam, as reoil drives the gun UP, and slide BACK, making front sight MEET gunport top edge HARD. Whoops, where did my front sight go? If they were more reliable, a Bushmaster bullpup M17 would have been perfect.
BTW, I only drew my weapon twice. Thank the Good Lord above I never had to drop the hammer.
BTW, why a revolver? Here is the simplest of reasons - if you shoot an auto out a gunport, the least you will have is a jam, as reoil drives the gun UP, and slide BACK, making front sight MEET gunport top edge HARD. Whoops, where did my front sight go? If they were more reliable, a Bushmaster bullpup M17 would have been perfect.
BTW, I only drew my weapon twice. Thank the Good Lord above I never had to drop the hammer.
41mag
Member
C_YEAGER,this guard was on his way home after work.He stopped in to get an oil change(I'm in parts @ a GMC dealership).We've chatted before.
Some interesting observations here.I really like the ammo stuck in cylinder anecdote.
Some interesting observations here.I really like the ammo stuck in cylinder anecdote.
DRZinn
Member
What company was that, and do they operate in California? I need another job starting NLT next summer when I transfer down to SDSU....
My last year in high school, my parents moved to an apartment complex. They had a VERY GOOD security company, but I can't remember the name of the outfit. All of the guards (except one) were gun nuts, and were happy to chat with an enthusiastic kid who also liked guns.
Those are the exeption, IME. From this thread, sounds like things haven't changed.
When I got out of the Army I did the guard thing. It's a good job while in school. I qualified for the gun ticket out at Lytle Creek (So Cal folks know the place) and it was SCARY.
Out of the 20 or so who qualified that day, I was the ONLY one who had any business carrying a gun around. The rest were worst than pathetic - they were SCARY. Many were AFRAID OF THE RECOIL of their .38s.
One guy shook so bad he almost dropped his weapon.
Everybody passed the test.
I was a halfway decent shot at the time - certainly not impressive. All were simply AMAZED at my gun prowess! WOW! One phase of the test was slow fire. 6 rounds fired single action. The target was "7 yards" away. (Right. More like 15 feet.) So I click-banged my way through my 6 rounds in short order - I was bored and wanted to get it over with. And hey, it was a SILHOUETTE for cryin' out loud!
Oh, you should have heard the oooohhs and ahhhhhs at THAT amazing display!
Rent-a-cops. Phooey.
Yeah, I know there are a few good people among them.
A few.
Those are the exeption, IME. From this thread, sounds like things haven't changed.
When I got out of the Army I did the guard thing. It's a good job while in school. I qualified for the gun ticket out at Lytle Creek (So Cal folks know the place) and it was SCARY.
Out of the 20 or so who qualified that day, I was the ONLY one who had any business carrying a gun around. The rest were worst than pathetic - they were SCARY. Many were AFRAID OF THE RECOIL of their .38s.
One guy shook so bad he almost dropped his weapon.Everybody passed the test.
I was a halfway decent shot at the time - certainly not impressive. All were simply AMAZED at my gun prowess! WOW! One phase of the test was slow fire. 6 rounds fired single action. The target was "7 yards" away. (Right. More like 15 feet.) So I click-banged my way through my 6 rounds in short order - I was bored and wanted to get it over with. And hey, it was a SILHOUETTE for cryin' out loud!
Oh, you should have heard the oooohhs and ahhhhhs at THAT amazing display!
Rent-a-cops. Phooey.
Yeah, I know there are a few good people among them.
A few.
I guess its different everywhere, but up here in VT most of the employees at Loomis Fargo were gun owners and hunters and stuff long before they worked here. All of us are at least decent on the weapon, we have 2 ex Army, 2 Marines, and even a former Navy Seal with us (you should see THAT dude shoot... holy $^&*@#$). So pity to the guy that tries to rob us. Im sure that in some places people dont have any interest in their guns, but up here we love 'em! Thats why we have this job. And as far as the guy who never shot his carry pistol, we wouldnt be allowed to carry a weapon we didnt qualify with. Besides, why would we want to? And as far as surveying the area, it might not look like we are surveying much, and you have have seen a pretty bad example too, but are very fast paced and dont usually stand around looking behind every wall for a BG. A few of the more gung-ho guys actually jump out while the truck is still moving (slowly). If something seems off, then we use caution. We do keep very aware though, and our hands stay on our guns untill we are safely inside the stop or inside the vehicle. I make eye contact with everyone around me. We dont talk to anyone, we dont smile, we dont ???? around at all. Some morons will make comments like "got any extra for me?" and "you can go ahead and load up the back of that ford when you're done" but I usually just say 'whatever pal' or nothing at all. Any more talk and I'll tell him to go away, or the driver will just blip the siren if someone is getting too close. Most of the folks get out of our way.
We do have very specific security procedures that we follow, a lot of which I really cant discuss on a message board for obvious reasons. But I can almost gaurantee that if someone is going to plan a heist or something like that, we will be at the end of the list of probable hits.
I myself have seen another local competitor (much smaller company) where they dont even all have full uniforms on, and some of them dont have weapons, and even a few times I have seen them ALL exit the vehicle. They are really asking for it. But I dont think they will be around much longer anyway. Oh well, more business for us.
We do have very specific security procedures that we follow, a lot of which I really cant discuss on a message board for obvious reasons. But I can almost gaurantee that if someone is going to plan a heist or something like that, we will be at the end of the list of probable hits.
I myself have seen another local competitor (much smaller company) where they dont even all have full uniforms on, and some of them dont have weapons, and even a few times I have seen them ALL exit the vehicle. They are really asking for it. But I dont think they will be around much longer anyway. Oh well, more business for us.
stans
Member
Unfortunately, for many military, police, and security type jobs, carrying a firearm is just part of the job. Those that carry may or may not be gun enthusiasts, they may or may not know how and when to shoot. Some absolutely hate guns, but carry because it is a requirement of the job. Some are absolutely anti-gun and think no one should have guns, there again, they are required to carry for their job. Some pick these jobs as careers and enjoy what they do, for others, it is just a job and a paycheck and they couldn't care less.
VaughnT
Member
Aaron, don't you just hate all those crackers asking you for extras!?! I'm all for being cordial, esp here in the south where manners are expected, but, boy, did that get old fast.
And then there are the guys that will hold up their hand like it was a pistol and say, "gotcha"...or, "stickemup." That one really pisses me off, but I get a bit of a kick out of how their faces change when I look them right in the eye and don't laugh or smile or nuthin. Then they realize how stupid they must look and kinda get that sheepish, embarrassed smile...and beat feet. One of these days, I'm going to automatically draw on one of these people and get myself fired and sued.
And then there are the guys that will hold up their hand like it was a pistol and say, "gotcha"...or, "stickemup." That one really pisses me off, but I get a bit of a kick out of how their faces change when I look them right in the eye and don't laugh or smile or nuthin. Then they realize how stupid they must look and kinda get that sheepish, embarrassed smile...and beat feet. One of these days, I'm going to automatically draw on one of these people and get myself fired and sued.
armoredman
Member
VaugnT, I came up with the best comeback to the "Got any free samples?" line......."Yes, copper coated lead delivered at high velocity - how many would you like?"
OK, the five gun guy...during Christmans season, from a week before Thanksgiving, to a week after New Years, we had the unofficial go-ahead to bring in some extra firepower, specifically to display as a deterrent. We have stick on gun racks in the trucks, and ARs, AKs, Mini 14s, Benellis, you name it, we had one. The company was very cool about back up guns, and almost all of us carried one - KelTec P11 on a body armor rig, for me.
Then there was T, who decided one day to test both theories, the holday and back up gun ones. He came to work in uniform, with a Witness on one hip, a Bersa on the other, two Glocks in opposite tactical thigh rigs, and a Smith 38 in a shoulder rig, while carrying an AK preban folder with 75 round drum and 37mm flare launcher, all underneath a black leather Matrix style trenchcoat.....the boss about feced himself. Most of the hardware did stay in the vault that day....
This is the same guy who carried a Remington pattern derringer in his back pocket as a third backup. One day, when his truck pulled in, he got out, stretched, and the thing went off. Guess he must have cocked it putting it into his pocket, and that guardless trigger spur was just waiting for a little pressure.
A huge bang, and we dove for weapons and phones, figuring someone was trying to take the terminal. I heard a wavering voice..."Guys, you're never gonna believe where I think I shot myself"
Knowing him, I hollered back , "T, did you shoot yourself in the butt?"
"I don't know!"
"Well, drop trou and find out!!!"
We had some priceless videotape from the security cameras of him "self inspecting"... The round went straight down, and apparently riccocheted up between his legs, and out the ceiling - we found the hole next rain. All he recieved was a burn mark the size of a silver dollar, and a very good scare.
Oddly enough, he really was knowledable about guns, just young and careless.....
Be afraid, be very afraid - he's a repo man now......
OK, the five gun guy...during Christmans season, from a week before Thanksgiving, to a week after New Years, we had the unofficial go-ahead to bring in some extra firepower, specifically to display as a deterrent. We have stick on gun racks in the trucks, and ARs, AKs, Mini 14s, Benellis, you name it, we had one. The company was very cool about back up guns, and almost all of us carried one - KelTec P11 on a body armor rig, for me.
Then there was T, who decided one day to test both theories, the holday and back up gun ones. He came to work in uniform, with a Witness on one hip, a Bersa on the other, two Glocks in opposite tactical thigh rigs, and a Smith 38 in a shoulder rig, while carrying an AK preban folder with 75 round drum and 37mm flare launcher, all underneath a black leather Matrix style trenchcoat.....the boss about feced himself. Most of the hardware did stay in the vault that day....
This is the same guy who carried a Remington pattern derringer in his back pocket as a third backup. One day, when his truck pulled in, he got out, stretched, and the thing went off. Guess he must have cocked it putting it into his pocket, and that guardless trigger spur was just waiting for a little pressure.
A huge bang, and we dove for weapons and phones, figuring someone was trying to take the terminal. I heard a wavering voice..."Guys, you're never gonna believe where I think I shot myself"
Knowing him, I hollered back , "T, did you shoot yourself in the butt?"
"I don't know!"
"Well, drop trou and find out!!!"
We had some priceless videotape from the security cameras of him "self inspecting"... The round went straight down, and apparently riccocheted up between his legs, and out the ceiling - we found the hole next rain. All he recieved was a burn mark the size of a silver dollar, and a very good scare.
Oddly enough, he really was knowledable about guns, just young and careless.....
Be afraid, be very afraid - he's a repo man now......
"Yes, copper coated lead delivered at high velocity - how many would you like?"
Oh man, thats a great one. I'll have to use that sometime. Yeah VaughnT, the whole make-your-fingers-like-a-gun-thing is really stupid, and its gonna get someone an ass-whoopin some day. It really is funny to act all serious and see how totally stupid they feel. Cause they realize, 'hey, that dude DOES have a gun, I should shut up'
Oh man, thats a great one. I'll have to use that sometime. Yeah VaughnT, the whole make-your-fingers-like-a-gun-thing is really stupid, and its gonna get someone an ass-whoopin some day. It really is funny to act all serious and see how totally stupid they feel. Cause they realize, 'hey, that dude DOES have a gun, I should shut up'
VaughnT
Member
Had it happen just yesterday, Aaron. Definitely fun to stare him down and see his face change as he quickly beat feet. I'd love to have heard what he told his buddy!
On the matter of excessive weaponry, I've lately taken to wearing an Emerson P-SARK in a cheapo ankle holster made for the P3AT or similar. It's not the fastest draw in the world, but it's there. I haven't found a pistol that I liked or a holster that would fit around my boots without printing very badly through my pantleg. I'm still looking, though.
The one thing that always comes to mind when I consider buying another gun, though, is what Stephen King wrote in the Gunslinger: "looks like they paid more attention to the weapons that they wore than the weapons that they were."
For the cost of another gun, holster and ammo, I could take a class or two. Where is the money truly better spent?
On the matter of excessive weaponry, I've lately taken to wearing an Emerson P-SARK in a cheapo ankle holster made for the P3AT or similar. It's not the fastest draw in the world, but it's there. I haven't found a pistol that I liked or a holster that would fit around my boots without printing very badly through my pantleg. I'm still looking, though.
The one thing that always comes to mind when I consider buying another gun, though, is what Stephen King wrote in the Gunslinger: "looks like they paid more attention to the weapons that they wore than the weapons that they were."
For the cost of another gun, holster and ammo, I could take a class or two. Where is the money truly better spent?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
