rbernie
Contributing Member
I was browsing the Centerfire site and noticed that they have a CZ75 copy made by Armscor, sold under the Rock Island name. Does anyone know anything about this pistol? Does it take standard CZ magazines?
Armscor CZ copies
- Thread starter rbernie
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atblis
Member
It's a sister gun to the Witness line imported by EAA. Basically it's a Tanfoglio.
armoredman
Member
Tanfoglio did this one? Hmm, new to me. Imitation, the purest form of flattery.
Sunray
Member
Armscor is in the Philippines. Same people who make Squires-Bingham .22's. A Tanfoglio isn't a CZ either. If a CZ-75 fits your hand, buy a CZ.
flinch
Member
I thought they were made in Turkey?
OP
OP
rbernie
Contributing Member
I have six CZ75s, thanks.
<sigh>
I just wanted to know where the Armscor's were made and if they accepted CZ75 magazines.
atblis
Member
Well
Go to Armscor's website. They have the pistol listed as the "Tanfoglio series" and that link goes straight to www.tanfolgio.it
The pistols say made in the Philippines on them. Some of the parts are most likely made in Italy to some degree.
It is identical to the smaller frame Witness that EAA no longer imports. I can't remember if CZ mags work in the small frame Witnesses.
Truthfully, the pistol looks really promising. Tanfoglio can make a darn nice pistol. The problem has been for the most part EAA. I don't even know how EAA is still in business.
So if you can get the same pistol from another company, that's a really good thing. IIRC Armscor has a much better customer service history than EAA.
When I have some spare change, I'll be buying one.
If a CZ fits your hand, there's a very very good chance the RIA MAP1 or whatever it's called will as well. It is a clone of the CZ, and for many people is even better ergonomically speaking. The Tanfoglios generally have a bit more beaver tail than the CZ. It's kinda like the difference between the SP01 and a Regular 75B.
EDIT: Here's a link to a thread where somebody bought one.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=379323&highlight=RIA&page=2
Go to Armscor's website. They have the pistol listed as the "Tanfoglio series" and that link goes straight to www.tanfolgio.it
The pistols say made in the Philippines on them. Some of the parts are most likely made in Italy to some degree.
It is identical to the smaller frame Witness that EAA no longer imports. I can't remember if CZ mags work in the small frame Witnesses.
Truthfully, the pistol looks really promising. Tanfoglio can make a darn nice pistol. The problem has been for the most part EAA. I don't even know how EAA is still in business.
So if you can get the same pistol from another company, that's a really good thing. IIRC Armscor has a much better customer service history than EAA.
When I have some spare change, I'll be buying one.
If a CZ fits your hand, there's a very very good chance the RIA MAP1 or whatever it's called will as well. It is a clone of the CZ, and for many people is even better ergonomically speaking. The Tanfoglios generally have a bit more beaver tail than the CZ. It's kinda like the difference between the SP01 and a Regular 75B.
EDIT: Here's a link to a thread where somebody bought one.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=379323&highlight=RIA&page=2
OP
OP
rbernie
Contributing Member
This is what confused me - I can't tell from this if they're made in the Phillipines (like the 1911s and revolvers) or made in Italy. It seems odd to make the parts in Italy and assemble them in the Phillipines to ship the completed product to the US and other markets.
ETA - thanks for the post reference - my SearchFoo failed me on that.
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atblis
Member
It's get weirder. Tanfoglio is an odd company.
-The early Swiss made CZ copies were tanfoglio derived. ITM AT84S.
-Armalite's AR24 which is Turkish but definitely derived from Tanfoglio. Looks like Tanfoglio set them up with the equipment.
-The baby eagle which is supposedly made in Israel, but is most definitely a Tanfoglio gun. Some of the parts are identical between the Witness and the BE. How much is done in Israel,....who knows?
-Now we have the supposedly made in the Phillipines RIA which is pretty much identical to the EAA Witness.
So basically Tanfoglio has ties with Switzerland, Turkey, Israel, and the Phillipines, and guns from all of those countries have been for sale in the US.
I don't know. I will say that the RIA guns look to be pretty solid, and for the price I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.
-The early Swiss made CZ copies were tanfoglio derived. ITM AT84S.
-Armalite's AR24 which is Turkish but definitely derived from Tanfoglio. Looks like Tanfoglio set them up with the equipment.
-The baby eagle which is supposedly made in Israel, but is most definitely a Tanfoglio gun. Some of the parts are identical between the Witness and the BE. How much is done in Israel,....who knows?
-Now we have the supposedly made in the Phillipines RIA which is pretty much identical to the EAA Witness.
So basically Tanfoglio has ties with Switzerland, Turkey, Israel, and the Phillipines, and guns from all of those countries have been for sale in the US.
I don't know. I will say that the RIA guns look to be pretty solid, and for the price I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.
atblis
Member
If you look at the thread I posted a link to, the OP sent the pistol back to RIA and they were responsive.
I have one in full size steel frame, MAP-1. CZ mags and mecgar mags fit well. Yes it is licensed build assembled in Phillipine with all components from Tanfoglio. Life time warranty from Rock Island which is well known for their customer support.
nalioth
Member
The MAP1 and MAPP1 are manufactured under license by Armscor.
They are sold under the "Force" brand in Europe and under the "Rock Island Armory" brand in the USA.
They are the same as the original Tangfolio Cz75 clones, not the newer higher capacity (and slightly larger) variants Tangfolio is currently producing.
They are sold under the "Force" brand in Europe and under the "Rock Island Armory" brand in the USA.
They are the same as the original Tangfolio Cz75 clones, not the newer higher capacity (and slightly larger) variants Tangfolio is currently producing.
Daniel1120
Member
Hank, how does your map-1 compare to cz's? Heck, a cz copy with a lifetime warranty and for cheap? Sounds good to me.
I have a CZ75B, a Tanfoglio Custom 90 (TZ75) and a RIA MAP1. Basically they shoot and feel the same. I got my RIA this summer, only have shot less than 100 rounds thru it. It shoots consistently and drop the brass almost the same spot everytime. The trigger feel a little bit creeper than my CZ and my TZ custom 90 and therefore group is a little bit larger too. My CZ and TZ both group about 2.5" at 25 yds with 2 hand hold standing. I can only do 3.5-4" with the RIA. I think the trigger should get better once the gun break-in.
By the way, the RIA Tanfoglio is more like a CZ75 pre-B copy with firing pin back plate design instead of roll pin. One of the reasons I want a Tanfoglio. Not brave enought to buy a Witness due to their poor customer support. RIA is a good deal with soild support. The finish is either park or matt blue, not as durable as painted CZ or EAA, but I don't like painted gun anyway!
"not the newer higher capacity (and slightly larger) variants Tangfolio is currently producing."
I thinkit is a matter of small frame vs. large frame, both are current production. just EAA requests Tanfoglio to build Witness in large frame, so common 16 round magazine (9mm) can not be used in EAA and EAA can sell the large frame mags at higher prices. The other reason I don't want a EAA. RIA uses the small frame mag which is current on Baby Eagle, CZ and other CZ clones and made by MecGar.
Also a note on the Life Time Warranty. When I received the gun, the owner's manual says 2 yrs warranty but comes with a Life Time warranty card. I e-mailed RIA and they replied and confirmed the "life Time warranty".
By the way, the RIA Tanfoglio is more like a CZ75 pre-B copy with firing pin back plate design instead of roll pin. One of the reasons I want a Tanfoglio. Not brave enought to buy a Witness due to their poor customer support. RIA is a good deal with soild support. The finish is either park or matt blue, not as durable as painted CZ or EAA, but I don't like painted gun anyway!
"not the newer higher capacity (and slightly larger) variants Tangfolio is currently producing."
I thinkit is a matter of small frame vs. large frame, both are current production. just EAA requests Tanfoglio to build Witness in large frame, so common 16 round magazine (9mm) can not be used in EAA and EAA can sell the large frame mags at higher prices. The other reason I don't want a EAA. RIA uses the small frame mag which is current on Baby Eagle, CZ and other CZ clones and made by MecGar.
Also a note on the Life Time Warranty. When I received the gun, the owner's manual says 2 yrs warranty but comes with a Life Time warranty card. I e-mailed RIA and they replied and confirmed the "life Time warranty".
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Rittmeister
Member
I had the full-size steel MAP1 variant for a while. It shot 8-9" low with my regular ammo (WWB); I ended up selling it in favor of a CZ75.
That was its only problem though; it fed several hundred rounds of a few different brands of ammo without a single hiccup, grouped well despite the POA/POI issue, and was a smooth shooter. I'd probably have kept it if it had a dovetailed front sight.
Now the RIA 1911s on the other hand, I really want to try. Have to wait for the wallet to catch up though
That was its only problem though; it fed several hundred rounds of a few different brands of ammo without a single hiccup, grouped well despite the POA/POI issue, and was a smooth shooter. I'd probably have kept it if it had a dovetailed front sight.
Now the RIA 1911s on the other hand, I really want to try. Have to wait for the wallet to catch up though
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