Armslist Sale Gone Bad

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@TenDriver

so you are saying they would have pulled this off inside (!) a gun store with the gun store people being present? lol... I don't think so...

but then again - I would not risk my life to make an extra $50 on a deal.... but maybe that's just me
 
Ideas:

1) Establish as much of a communications trail with the buyer (or seller) ahead of time as possible. If you can, get phone number(s), email, and anything else. The more they give you the less likely they are to be someone who will try and pull a heist and disappear. Not perfect, of course, but the less forthcoming they are about identity the less I'd be inclined to trust.

2) Obviously a well-lit, highly public place with security cameras is a must. Walmart parking lots have lots of security cameras and they're fairly visible. Don't then go hide in the farthest corner away from the crowds, though. Got to strike a balance, of course, between alarming the patrons and having no visibility. Police stations are another really, really good choice. Again, not any guarantee, but someone setting out to rob you probably won't meet you at the cop shop. Other good choices -- Sheetz/Wawa or other modern style convenience store with tons of lighting, tons of customers cycling through the parking lot, good security cams.

3) Bring a friend. But not so they can shoot your attackers if things go bad...or not primarily for that reason. Another person there changes the dynamic. Even two thugs are less likely to try and hold up you and the buddy sitting over on the car fender watching. It is much harder to distract two sets of eyes from a sneak/flank maneuver like these dudes pulled on your pal. There is another witness. There is at least some inherent suggestion of physical force capacity. Your pal may have sense enough not to blaze up the parking lot with the Glock under his coat, but they don't know that.

4) Don't JUST bring someone. If they're there, they're there for a reason and you should have some plan to make their presence maximally useful. Discuss what you want your pal to do, and not to do. You really DON'T want him unlimbering his blaster and firing at anyone -- not even if a robbery happens, in many cases. You do want him out of the car, at least a few feet away from the transaction area, watchful (though not intimidating -- 99% of these transactions are good folks, perfectly peaceable, and there's no reason to play the mob heavy, brooding in an overcoat, fingering his gun). You should be there early, if possible, and he should be positioned well and spotting and observing the approaching car and its occupants. He should be watching, and perhaps engaging in conversation, the OTHER guy(s) while you're talking to the buyer/seller. If he's peeking over your shoulder at the trade goods and not paying attention to what's going on around you then he's not helping at all. Keep spread out, even keep the car between you two, so you can't be easily flanked/surprised. Arrange the situation to make it most advantageous for you, and passively most disadvantageous for a hold-up, and most criminals will not be interested in even starting their process.

4) A shootout? Heavens, no! Not unless you are convinced you're about to DIE, and all the possible and likely negative outcomes of gunplay are better than what's going to happen in the next second. Your pal wasn't about to die, they just wanted to commit a robbery. He had a gun to his head. The odds of drawing successfully and engaging the bad guy are really, really low. (If you're trained so very well that you can pull off a disarm and engage under those circumstances, then you don't need me to tell you how bad your odds are.) Few robberies actually end in the victim being killed. NOT killing someone yourself is a very positive outcome, and having to shoot and/or kill someone is the second WORST outcome to this scenario. (Maybe third...killing someone else who happened to get in the way of your bullets while you were defending yourself is probably the second worst.) I won't tell you to be a passive victim, per se but to use your brains and social skills to determine if drawing and firing a weapon is what you MUST do or a poor choice. Those two dudes driving off with your pal's guns, leaving him unharmed and able to go about his life -- that's a very good outcome.

And your pal? If you're being held up, and he's shooting at THEM, then he's shooting at YOU, TOO. And you may have just about worked through this negative social encounter when he fired and now you're standing in a gunfight. That looks cool in the movies. It isn't very cool in real life.

There's a lot of nuance here, almost infinite ways things can go, can work out or end badly. Your infinitely better option is to set things up so that you aren't chosen as a victim -- your location, your position, your presence(s) make a criminal simply drive on by and not begin his plan.
 
In this case the well travelled / busy location did nothing to prevent the robbery. It happened in a Gander Mtn parking lot during daylight / business hours.

I'm not even sure meeting at an FFL would have stopped this.
Probably not. These guys must have been real knuckleheads. Can you imagine what these idiots are thinking? Not a very good way to get a gun. I wonder if they know that you can actually purchase guns at your neighborhood LGS? Theyre not illegal (yet).

Probably already have felonies though. I think your friends are real lucky Ten.
 
Don't JUST bring someone. If they're there, they're there for a reason and you should have some plan to make their presence maximally useful. Discuss what you want your pal to do, and not to do.

+1 to that. Bringing someone will most likely mean that 2 people are gonna get robbed instead 1.
 
@TenDriver



so you are saying they would have pulled this off inside (!) a gun store with the gun store people being present? lol... I don't think so...



but then again - I would not risk my life to make an extra $50 on a deal.... but maybe that's just me


No. They wouldn't have done this inside a gun store. I'm not sure how agreeable the local stores are to private transactions inside their establishments are however. I'm sure there's someone around here to do the transfer, I just haven't looked.
 
If someone is close enough to have a sidearm up my nose, I'm unholstering and firing from the hip. Come to think of it, if anyone has a firearm pulled and pointed at me, (LEOs get a reprieve) I'm unholstering and point shooting.

This is a self-defense scenario I've chosen to follow in my state. I'm in fear of my life, so I will stop the attack if able. If not able to stop the attack, I'm just another victim of violent crime and a statistic. At least I tried to save my life.

I'm not waiting around to see if the gunmen spare my life or not.

With the above said, I never buy used from unknown individuals. I wouldn't put myself in that dangerous situation to start with.
 
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TenDriver there is an FFL in Decatur that I have worked with, real nice guy. If you or Potatohead want his info I can pm it to either of you. In relation to the thread, when I lived in Texas my best friend and I always provided company for a f2f transaction. If either you or Potatohead need an extra body for a f2f, I can volunteer to prevent something like this from happening again in Huntsville.
 
Even if he would have had his side arm holstered, It sounds like his best option was to let the thugs go with the guns and let the law catch up later. Two thugs stupid enough to pull of a theft in a place like that are probably stupid enough to shoot as well. By the time he would have realized he was being jacked, a gun was already in his face. I don't care how fast you are, by this point drawing only decreases your chance of survival. The Highpoint may have been empty,but he had no way of knowing it. My feeling is that the other Glock will surface soon and then all that will need repair is pride. I glad for your friend that he is ok, and the goons are getting what's coming to them.
 
TenDriver there is an FFL in Decatur that I have worked with, real nice guy. If you or Potatohead want his info I can pm it to either of you. In relation to the thread, when I lived in Texas my best friend and I always provided company for a f2f transaction. If either you or Potatohead need an extra body for a f2f, I can volunteer to prevent something like this from happening again in Huntsville.


Thank you. We might need that FFL at some point.
 
If someone is close enough to have a sidearm up my nose, I'm unholstering and firing from the hip. Come to think of it, if anyone has a firearm pulled and pointed at me, (LEOs get a reprieve) I'm unholstering and point shooting.

This is a self-defense scenario I've chosen to follow in my state. I'm in fear of my life, so I will stop the attack if able. If not able to stop the attack, I'm just another victim of violent crime and a statistic. At least I tried to save my life.

I'm not waiting around to see if the gunmen spare my life or not.

With the above said, I never buy used from unknown individuals. I wouldn't put myself in that dangerous situation to start with.
Fair enough
 
TenDriver there is an FFL in Decatur that I have worked with, real nice guy. If you or Potatohead want his info I can pm it to either of you. In relation to the thread, when I lived in Texas my best friend and I always provided company for a f2f transaction. If either you or Potatohead need an extra body for a f2f, I can volunteer to prevent something like this from happening again in Huntsville.
Thanks. And I would like that info if you dont mind. My LGS employees are absolute jerks and I wouldnt dare ask them to do a transfer. I hate even walking in there now but he has ammo galore. Thanks again.
 
It seems very unsafe to meet a stranger and exchange cash for a weapon.
I would only sell to someone I know or to my favorite shop for I am old, careful and a bit of a paranoid concerning firearms, cash and those you don't know.
 
Yet another example of why one should REALLY not take self-defense advice from cops. :(

There are several good defensive lessons to be learned from this. "If I'd have had my pistol I should have yanked it out and opened fire on the guys," is not one of them. Sheesh.
You are right. If you can even believe this story about what the cops said they would be the ones to arrest you if you opened fire in a public area and they would be right doing so.
 
It seems very unsafe to meet a stranger and exchange cash for a weapon.
It seems very unsafe to meet a stranger and exchange cash for anything - and robberies occur with more than firearms. I've heard of it happening with bikes, motorcycles and motorcycle gear, tools, jewelry, precious metals, exotic animals... anything that can be taken easily and quickly flipped for cash.
 
Over the last 40 years I have bought and sold lots of items(some were firearms) from my house and had numerous yard sales. But with the way things are today I no longer do this. With the prices most everyone wants for used items I find it as cheap to buy new. And my used items I sell online and ship. Having a C&R license covers me for almost all the guns I want to buy outside of gun dealer.
 
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