Army General bans OFF BASE concealed carry in Alaska

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Stupid and draconian, yes. Unlawful, no.

Conduct of servicemembers off base can be regulated by the military.

Conduct of non-servicemembers on base can be regulated by the military.

Conduct of non-servicemembers off base (even if they live on base), however, cannot. If the order was meant to apply to them as well, that just might be the foothold needed to rescind the order and bitchslap the general before he can reissue a corrected version.
 
If the Army is anything like the Marines, your Sergeants and Lt. will probably say something like "Welcome to the Army, you signed the contract.. no **** about it"
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Very similar in that regard. However, always keep in mind if it's an
unlawful order, it's unlawful. Now you have to weigh costs and
benefits. Challenging this ccw order will likely bring your military
advancement to a screeching halt. Challenging some stupid new
striped E5 on why he's stacking naked detainees up into a pyramid is
YOUR DUTY. Go up your chain if something unlawful doesn't stop.
But, any time you challenge something you'd better be 100% sure
you're in the right on it. You're rank doesn't matter if you're right
and you can find allies. I can guarantee it if you follow an unlawful
order that makes the news or post pics of it at Wal-mart, you can
bet lowest rank will take the hit hardest first.

If all else fails and the military won't stop it, program your Congressman's
phone number into the speed-dialer on your satellite phone and give him
a ring :D
 
Back in the day, when they were trying to turn me into something resembling an officer, we used to have lessons about not giving orders unless you really needed to, and not to give orders that you had a good idea would be violated, and other such leadership principles. They emphasized that there were all sorts of orders that we could issue that were legal and binding, but were just plain STUPID!

I guess once you get to be a general, you just ignore stuff like that, huh?
 
The question and debate shouldn't be can he or is legal for him to do it.These are are distractions of the enemy of freedom, the question should be is he right to deny a soldier living off station the right to carry a legal weapon , in a legal manner for defense. You see general officers have protective Details that go with them everywhere.He doesn't have to worry about being mugged, raped or killed or even targted for service in a an event of significient in the WOT. An e-6, E-5 male or female does . You guys are missing the forrest for the trees.
 
If the commanding general has both the right and the power to issue such an order then it's a lawful order. Whether it's a bad order is another argument.
If you get an order in the military that you disagree with then you obey it, and complain afterwards.
 
If the commanding general has both the right and the power to issue such an order then it's a lawful order. Whether it's a bad order is another argument.
If you get an order in the military that you disagree with then you obey it, and complain afterwards
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I agree, been there done that,even got the scars and the tee shirt. But we need to act for the poor grunt at the bottom of the food chain.They can't protest this despicable order we can the cgeneral indirectly works for us.We need to raise sand.

To that end contact your representative and contact your senators.Contact the big talk radio shows that are gun friendly.Contact the general and let him know what you think he can be reached at:

MG Charles Jacoby's email : [email protected]

His phone number is 907-384-2163
 
Back in the day, when they were trying to turn me into something resembling an officer, we used to have lessons about not giving orders unless you really needed to, and not to give orders that you had a good idea would be violated, and other such leadership principles. They emphasized that there were all sorts of orders that we could issue that were legal and binding, but were just plain STUPID!

I guess once you get to be a general, you just ignore stuff like that, huh?
Click to expand...

You're talking about some fundamental leadership principles:
  1. Never make a rule that you won't want to enforce. If you make such a rule you surrender control to whoever manipulates you into enforcing it.
  2. Make as few rules as possible. Rules bind the rule maker as well as the people at whom the rules are directed. The more rules you make the more resources you must devote to enforcing the rules and the greater the risk that you will be manipulated into enforcing a rule that hampers your essential mission.
  3. Learn the difference between what must be seen and what is best left unnoticed. Develop the ability to swivel your eyes as quickly as possible away from what a leader should not want to see.
  4. Don't blur the distinction between what's important to the mission and what's unimportant or detrimental to it.
  5. Bind your followers to you as tightly as possible by cultivating loyalty based on trust and mutual respect rather than obedience based on fear of retribution. The man who follows your orders to the letter for fear of doing anything else will follow your orders to the letter at a time when doing so is sure to sink you. And he will smile with quiet satisfaction while he observes your descent.

This general might have been promoted to his level of incompetence.
 
Worked for Jacoby when was CC of JTF-Bravo, he didn't used to be a stupid guy. Guess the stars went to his head.

In any case, as mentioned earlier, there does have to be a clear realtionship to a legitimate military purpose. I seriously doubt if it could be made to stick in the long run but wouldn't want to be the test case.

Just send a nice email to your congresscritters, make the association between satisfactory performance and campaign donations and something will happen relatively soon.
Sam
 
C'mon guys, the order is unpleasant and silly, but is perfectly lawfull.

Your command can pretty much dictate how you will conduct yourself all the time should they choose. For instance, here at Fort Bragg (and I think most posts) members of the military who ride motorcycles must wear gloves, boots, longsleeve shirts and pants, a helmet, and a reflective belt on and off duty, on and off post.

You can be ordered to wear your uniform 24/7 with no civilian clothes authorized, or you can be forced to remain on post with no off post priviledges whatsoever. Male soldiers are also prohibited from wearing earrings while off-duty in civilian clothes.

By joining the military we have signed a contract and agreed to abide by all lawful orders. Unfortunately there is nothing illegal about stupid.
 
C'mon OrvilleYertleson,
Go read through your MCM and them come on back.

Find me a court martial where the specification on the 92 violation was wear of earrings off post within the CONUS. No can make stick as it contains no clear military necessity. Plenty of A15's but that's an administrative action. Overseas yes, different circumstances apply. Motorcycle safety gear, easy to show purpose as military is REQUIRED to provide for your medical care and make a legitimate attempt to keep you servicable.

Show the clear military necessity of Jacoby's blunder.

Sam
 
If nothing else, this thread illustrates how deeply divided the groups are that have and haven't been indoctrinated into the military way of life.
 
Find me a court martial where the specification on the 92 violation was wear of earrings off post within the CONUS. No can make stick as it contains no clear military necessity. Plenty of A15's but that's an administrative action.
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You really think there are no courts martial on that regulation because it wouldn't stick? How about because it's a minor issue best dealt with by NJP and no-one has (yet) been stupid enough to insist on a court martial?
 
How about other bases/states

Anyone know what the rules are in other states or any other similarly bad regulations in other states/bases?
 
Doc,
I kept my diamond for 7 years. You don't have to try and explain the workings of the system to me.
Lots of stuff never even gets considered for trial by either side and you should be well aware of the whys.

If Jacoby wants to make an issue of it he WILL be handed his @$$ on a platter.
System says that Jacoby is in tube city now either way.

Sam
 
I live in Fairbanks, Alaska. When this order was issued, it hit the local news outlets. The claim made on the news was that the order was issued due to a couple of incidents involving off duty soldiers with weapons off post. In one instance, three soldiers murdered a local rap musician. This order was issued soon after the soldiers were found not guilty by a local jury if I remember the time frame correctly.
 
rabrog said:
In one instance, three soldiers murdered a local rap musician. This order was issued soon after the soldiers were found not guilty by a local jury
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so which one is it? if they were found guilty that means they didn't murder anyone, no?
 
A jury found them not guilty of murder as they believed the "self defense" arguments the defense lawyer used. My opinion is that this was a murder.
 
rebrog,
You are entitled to your opinion. America is the place for that.
The jury disagreed with your opinion. America is the place for that too.

Sam
 
SAm +1

Also Kinda funny how the same military that will force you to wear a helmet on a motorcycle, your seatbelt in a car off base, will restrict you from carrying other life preservers.. Oh well 3 more years...
 
I spent four years in the Air Force in the 1960s and OBSERVED the following:

Paygrades O-1 and O-2 are immature, self centered morons.

Paygrades O-3 and up are arrogant, power crazed fascists.

Most enlisted ranks are pretty much okay except for T/Sgt Green.

General Officers have to be d*cks by definition. It is probably written into the UCMJ and/or Code of Conduct. ;)
 
I really liked the General in Germany that ordered all his troops to NOT consort with prositutes.
And prostitution is legal in Germany.
Soliders--hookers==fun.
I just wonder how this was enforced.

Gun off base? They're not mine sir, They're my wifes.

AFS
 
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