Army Revolvers of the 1870's

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M.E.Eldridge

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I was looking at the Colt Single Action Army revolver replicas in military type configurations and I found a model of the Cavalry and Artillery revolvers, but no Army type. Did the U.S. Army use the SAA or did it go with something else? Cap and Ball Revolvers? Schofields?New Army's? What? Thanks for any help.
 
M.E.Eldridge said:
I was looking at the Colt Single Action Army revolver replicas in military type configurations and I found a model of the Cavalry and Artillery revolvers, but no Army type. Did the U.S. Army use the SAA or did it go with something else? Cap and Ball Revolvers? Schofields?New Army's? What? Thanks for any help.
Yes, the US Army used the SAA in, I believe, a seven and a half inch barrel. The Cavalry is a part of the Army. The United States Firearms company makes replicas. http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/custer-gun.asp
 
The Real Hawkeye said:
Yes, the US Army used the SAA in, I believe, a seven and a half inch barrel. The Cavalry is a part of the Army. The United States Firearms company makes replicas. http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/custer-gun.asp

Thanks for the link and the info. So, the U.S.Army used a very similar revolver to the Cavalry. I like 'Army' models for older models of firearms, but $1500 is by far over my budget for a single pistol.
 
M.E.Eldridge said:
Thanks for the link and the info. So, the U.S.Army used a very similar revolver to the Cavalry. I like 'Army' models for older models of firearms, but $1500 is by far over my budget for a single pistol.
Um, well, are you asking if infantrymen used revolvers? Generally no. Usually, it was officers and cavalry. At the beginning of the Civil War, there really was no Cavalry, as such. Generals and their staff rode on horses, and they carried swords and horse pistols. During that conflict they discovered how powerful a force the General and his mounted staff could be, so they developed a Cavalry force for the United States Army apart from the General's staff. This proved very effective in the Indian Wars. A man on a horse with a revolver was very deadly. A bunch of them were even more so. Infantrymen would only carry a revolver if they owned one. I'm no expert, but that's the way I believe it worked.
 
Actually, the Army formed the United States Mounted Regiment (also sometimes called the United States Mounted Rifles) in the 1820s. The USMR spawned a 2nd USMR. It was the 2nd USMR that Scott praised as "Brave rifles, veterans. You have been baptized in fire and blood and come out steel" during the Mexican War.

By the Civil War, these two regiments were known as the 1st and 2nd Dragoons. Mounted units formed during the war were designated as "cavalry," not dragoons, but their armament and organization were identical (equimpment permitting) to the dragoons.

Shortly thereafter, the dragoons were redesignated cavalry, and all the existing cavalry regiments renumbered -- today's First and Second Cavalry are the direct descendants of the First and Second USMR and the First and Second Dragoons. The Second Cavalry still bears the motto "brave rifles."
 
M.E.Eldridge said:
I was looking at the Colt Single Action Army revolver replicas in military type configurations and I found a model of the Cavalry and Artillery revolvers, but no Army type. Did the U.S. Army use the SAA or did it go with something else? Cap and Ball Revolvers? Schofields?New Army's? What? Thanks for any help.

There were no "cavalry" and "artillery" models or configurations. Those are modern names. The U.S. Army purchased and issued Colt Single Action Army revolvers starting in 1873. All of them had 7-1/2" barrels. Many years (decades) later, some of them were rebuilt in government arsenals with shorter 5-1/2" barrels (that may have simply been cutoff 7-1/2" barrels). The shorter barrel versions are now commonly known as "artillery" models, but not for any good reason. There is no evidence that barrel length ever dictated the units to which revolvers were issued.

The military in the Indian Wars period (1865 to 1890, roughly) issued 7-1/2" Colt single action revolvers almost exclusively. A small number of Smith & Wesson top-break "Schofield" revolvers (chambered for the shorter .45 S&W round) were also purchased and used.
 
History Lesson!

Vern Humphrey said:
Actually, the Army formed the United States Mounted Regiment (also sometimes called the United States Mounted Rifles) in the 1820s. The USMR spawned a 2nd USMR. It was the 2nd USMR that Scott praised as "Brave rifles, veterans. You have been baptized in fire and blood and come out steel" during the Mexican War.

By the Civil War, these two regiments were known as the 1st and 2nd Dragoons. Mounted units formed during the war were designated as "cavalry," not dragoons, but their armament and organization were identical (equimpment permitting) to the dragoons.

Shortly thereafter, the dragoons were redesignated cavalry, and all the existing cavalry regiments renumbered -- today's First and Second Cavalry are the direct descendants of the First and Second USMR and the First and Second Dragoons. The Second Cavalry still bears the motto "brave rifles."

OK, everybody has it somewhat right so far.:banghead:

Vern, you are closest to being right especially with the timing. The first REGULAR Army mounted regiment was the "1st U.S. Dragoons" followed by the "2nd U.S. Dragoons". Their 'branch color' was Orange. They were followed by the "1st U.S. Mounted Rifles" whose branch color I forget:confused: . They were followed by the "1st U.S. Cavalry and "2nd U.S. Cavalry", branch color yellow. These units all pre-dated the "Civil War" (how can war be 'civil'?:rolleyes: ). Yes the 1st U.S. Mounted Rifles were the ones referred to as "Brave Rifles".

They were all planned to have slightly different equipment/arms and capabilities but in practice they all performed the cavalry missions. Shortly before the "Civil War" they were all redesignated as "Cavalry" in sequential number. That is the 1st U.S. Dragoons became the 1st U.S. Cavalry, 2nd U.S. Dragoons became the 2nd U.S. Cavalry, 1st U.S. Mounted Rifles the 3rd U.S. Cavalry, 1st U.S. Cavalry the 4th U.S. Cavalry, 2nd U.S. Cavalry the 5th U.S. Cavalry.

The Model 1873 Colt's Revolver in .45 Colt's Caliber was standard issue to the U.S. Army from 1873 until 1892 with the adoption of the newer Colt double acton in .38 Long Colt caliber. During the time the 1873 was issue, any member of the U.S. Army that was designated to be equipped with a revolver got the 7 1/2" barrel Colt. The Cavalry used the most of them because every trooper was issued both revolver and a carbine. Sabers were issued but most often packed and stored in the post-Civil War western campaigns.

Late in the 19th Century the Army, having a new revolver to issue (the .38 Colt DA), reconditioned the 7 1/2" barrel 1873s and shortened the barrels to 5 1/2" as 'back-up' sidearms and put them in storage. When the Spanish-American War came along in 1898, some units got issued the 5 1/2" Colt .45s as there weren't enough .38 Colts available. One of those units was the 1st U.S. Volunteer Cavalry.

During the period of front-line issue of the 1873 Colt, the Army also bought and issued a fair number of S&W top-break revolvers in .45 Schofield(slightly shorter case than .45 Colt). There were enough S&Ws in use that the Army chose to issue the .45 Schofield ammunition exclusively to simplfy logistics. It worked in both revolvers whereas the .45 Colt cartridge would not work in the S&W revolver.

The Cavalry and Artillery are both branches of the U.S. Army. Cavalry branch color is yellow and Artillery branch color is red. Hence the terms "yellow legs" and "red legs". Actually only NCOs and Officers had branch stripes on their pants legs. They were 1" for officers and 1/2" for NCOs.

As far as documentation, I have read probably half a dozen histories of the U.S. Cavalry both private and official. I have read a LOT of history of the U.S. Army. I can't give anyone a specific title to find and read in your local library but I highly recommend the effort. Judging by some of the information posted here, several people could benefit by some reading. :eek:

Vern, I chose your post to quote because it had the MOST correct information compared to others regarding the U.S. Cavalry.
 
Still not quite right...

In 1892 the Army adopted a Colt .38 caliber double-action, hand ejector revolver to replace the .45 model 1873. At the time all had 7 1/2" barrels. As the new guns became available, the old ones were retired and put into storage. At the same time there were some new, unissued 1873 models that were also kept in storage.

About 1895 both Colt and Springfield Armory started refurbishing the used revolvers, and shortening the barrels by two inches. In the process most of the used guns were reassembled with mixed serial numbers.

In 1900 the program was accelerated because of the demand for .45 caliber revolvers coming from the Philippine Islands, and by 1903 all of the 1873 models, including previously unissued ones, had been modified. However many that were in the hands of state militia units remained in they’re original configuration.

Some of the altered revolvers (as well as unaltered ones) were used during the Spanish-American War when there was a shortage of .38 revolvers. Others, as previously noted, went to the Philippine Islands. These were later replaced with the model 1909 revolver, and thereafter, the model 1911 pistol. The remaining 1873 revolvers were retired, and for the most part sold as surplus.
 
Came across these posts whilst looking for one that I'd put up.

Sorry . Found it .
 
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History Nut said:
Vern, I chose your post to quote because it had the MOST correct information compared to others regarding the U.S. Cavalry.

Not bad for an Infanryman -- since we rarely deign to notice Cavalry.

By the way, Cavalry are "yellow legs" and Artillery are "red legs" but Infantry are never "blue legs."
 
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