Original finish on Colt SAA grips?

[Panzerschwein]

Hello everyone! I've tried to find an answer to what the first 1873 Colt Single Action Army handgun's grips were like... I have heard they were walnut but I am not sure of the finish?

Reason I ask is because I'm looking at this model revolver from Cimarron:

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/military-replicas/u-s-cavalry-1.html



I am in the market for a historically accurate early model Colt SAA, but don't want to spend more than $700. I will also be reloading .45 Colt for this gun and will be shooting alot of real black powder loads.

So I've done some research but still I can't for the life of me figure out if the grips on this Cimarron are like the real deal was. I know the Italians put alot of red varnish on there reproduction grips... is that how Colt really made them?

I would have no problem stripping the varnish and refinishing the grips to match what Colt really was making in the 1870's... I just don't know at all what they were really making, or how to reproduce that in modern times. If you SAA fans out there know the answer to this question it would be greatly appreciated if you shared your knowledge with me.

Take care pards!

 

[rcmodel]

Maybe Too red.
Original grips where varnished walnut.

The Italian grips are not walnut, and don't look right when refinished either, IMO.

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/colt-single-action-pinch-frame-c5593/#.VJN2ZcoAIA

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/s...le-action-army-44-rimfire-c10150/#.VJN3NsoAIA

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/colt-single-action-cavalry-c4780/#.VJN3jMoAIA

rc

 

[Saddlebag Preacher]

The 7th cav. version is an excellent gun for the money. I used mine in western reenactments, target practice and movie extra. It shot more blanks than live rounds, but it was very accurate with a 255 grain bullet over 35 grains of 3F Goex BP. That was close to the original army load.

I was stupid and let someone talk me out of it. I'll get another.

RC is correct, the grips are a little more red, but that doesn't really hurt the overall authenticity of it. Here is a pic of mine beside calamity Jane in a gunfight.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Wow! I like it!

I thought the Italians used European walnut? If not, I could stain them to make the darker etc.

If that won't look right, does anyone make walnut grips for the SAA that I could maybe have fitted to the gun? I really am going for that "authentic" look if you will, and am willing to pay for it as time goes on.

 

[sgt127]

I really am going for that "authentic" look if you will, and am willing to pay for it as time goes on.

I'm guessing dragging it down a gravel road for about a half mile should get you that look.

 

[Jim K]

I don't think dragging it will be necessary. Just remove the existing finish, apply a dark walnut stain, then boiled linseed oil for a military finish or a coat of spray spar varnish for a "civilian" finish. True, the existing wood will have a finer grain than the American walnut used on most of the originals, but the refinish should be pretty close.

FWIW, the frame coloring shown in that picture is much too light and looks nothing like the originals. I have seen (and own) Cimarron guns that are much closer to the original, so if you want an authentic look, I suggest going to some gun shows and try to look at originals, or do some web surfing on sites like that in #2 above, then try to buy a repro where you can see before you buy.

Jim

 

[Panzerschwein]

Okay sounds good Yeah for whatever reason the color case hardening does look pretty off in that photo, looks pretty nice regardless LOL but I will be hunting for one that looks darker and more original.

I think if I go with the 7th cavalry model I will be redoing the stocks like you said.

 

[rcmodel]

I think it is a photo lighting or artistic artifact.

I have a Cimarron 7th. Calvary and it looks nothing like that ugly.
I converted it to 32-20 WCF using a 1st. Gen. Colt cylinder & barrel several years ago.

And the pretty case color has faded to mostly grey in the last five years.
But it never was that nasty yellow in the add photo.



rc

 

[bannockburn]

Cooldill

I picked up this EMF Hartford U.S. Cavalry Model at a gun show a few years ago. Priced right for a used gun with no box or paperwork; I just wanted one as I figured I would never be able to afford the real thing any time soon. I don't know how period correct the grips are as I don't believe they would have been that heavily varnished like they are. Still a decent gun for the money and a nice addition to my single action revolver family.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

The Italian grips are not walnut, and don't look right when refinished either, IMO.

Uberti does use walnut for their pistol grips and rifle stocks, but it is not the same American Black Walnut favored for many years by American gun makers. Uberti uses European Walnut, which also goes by the name of Cirassian Walnut, Persian Walnut, and English Walnut. All the same tree, different names. The scientific name for this tree is Juglans regia. It occurs throughout Europe and Asia. American Black Walnut is Juglans nigra. Both trees are in the Juglans genus, but they are different species. Black Walnut is native to Eastern North America, the European Walnut originated in Asia but has since been planted all over Europe and England too.

European Walnut can have beautiful figure and has been used by gunmakers in Europe for hundreds of years. It tends to be somewhat lighter in color than American Black Walnut.

Uberti adds a reddish stain, not red varnish, to their grips and rifle stocks, then sprays them with modern varnish or lacquer, I am not sure which.

If that won't look right, does anyone make walnut grips for the SAA that I could maybe have fitted to the gun? I really am going for that "authentic" look if you will, and am willing to pay for it as time goes on.

The way one piece wood grips have traditionally been fitted to a revolver is to fasten the grips to the backstrap before any finish work has been done. Then the metal backstrap and the wooden grips are ground and sanded to final shape, so the wood and metal match up perfectly. Then the grip and the backstrap are separated, and each goes on for further polishing, the metal gets blued and the wood gets varnished or lacquered. That is the way Colt did it in 1873 and that is the way Uberti still does it. So if you were to try to fit another pair of grips to your Uberti revolver, you would probably wind up scratching off the finish from the backstrap. Then you would need to refinish the backstrap and it would probably not match the factory blue.

I suspect Jim K has the best suggestion. Remove the grips, apply a dark walnut stain, and then refinish them with oil or varnish.

By the way, I used to work in the furniture industry, and all the furniture we made with American Black Walnut received walnut stain before the lacquer was applied anyway.

Here is an Uberti/Cimarron Cattleman I bought used about ten years ago. The colors of the 'case hardening' have faded a bit over time. By the way, the colors of real Bone Case Hardening, as well as the type of case hardening that Uberti does tend to fade over time. The colors are fragile, extended exposure to strong sunlight can fade them, so can harsh chemicals, or just time all by itself. The metal retains its surface hardness, but the colors tend to fade. For this reason some gunmakers coat their case hardened frames with clear lacquer to protect the colors. But they will fade over time anyway.

You can see I have left the grips just as they came from the factory.







Here is a little comparison study of Case Hardening on Single Action revolvers. First, a 2nd Gen Colt made in the 1970s. This is true Bone Case Hardening the way Colt has always done it. Over time the colors have faded from use and lots of Black Powder shooting. But notice how smoothly the colors blend into the background metal color, particularly around the barrel and ejector housing.





Next is the Cimarron/Uberti Cattleman pictured earlier. Notice how the colors do not blend into the metal as nicely as on the Colt.




Next is a Ruger 'original model' Vaquero with the fake color process they used to use. Notice how blotchy it looks compared to the Colt.





Finally, an early Ruger New Vaquero made while they were still offering their 'color case' finish. Really blotchy looking.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks driftwood!

So I should just strip the varnish off the factory grips, sand them down, stain with walnut stain, then put on a few layers of boiled linseed oil?

Thanks! I really feel like things are coming together. I'm going to Cabelas in Kansas City this afternoon, hopefully they will have some Uberti SAA I can handle!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Don't 'sand them down'. You don't want to make them any smaller. Stain penetrates pretty deep into the wood, if you sand off the stained wood you will have shrunk the grips down and they will no longer mate up nicely with the backstrap. Just sand them lightly with fine sandpaper, ending up maybe with 600 grit. Wash off the dust with lacquer thinner, allow them to dry, and apply a commercial walnut stain.

Then finish with boiled linseed or varnish. If applying varnish, several thin coats are better than one thick coat. Sand in between coats with 600 grit sandpaper to allow each coat to adhere to the one below.

Watch out for drips.

 

[CraigC]

Somebody posted a thread in the blackpowder section with a tutorial on stripping the factory finish chemically. IMHO, it turned out really good and does look like the original grips or at least close enough.

Lighting plays a huge role in how color case hardening appears in photos. I've never seen an Uberti that looked like the Cimarron pic above and suspect it has more to do with lighting and photography than anything. For example, this pic would make one think that the colors were really bright and vivid:



In the hand, it looks much darker and richer, more like this:



Uberti case colors can run the spectrum from very plain:





To quite nice:

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks!

So to be sure I'm in the right, I will want to strip off the varnish on the grips... then stain with walnut stain... then for a military look use some BLO?

 

[BobWright]

One thing of note: The varnish used in the early days of the Colt SAA was not what we call varnish today.

The varnish of the Ninteenth Century was what is know as a "long-oil varnish" that is, it contained a high percentage of linseed oil and also a Damar gum resin, no synthetic resins. This made the varnish much softer than modern varnishes.

Maybe you can find an alkyd resin spar varnish. I have used a mix of satin finish polyurethane varnish with boiled linseed oil and gum turpentine, mixing equal parts of each. Takes a little longer to dry, but gives a nice finish.

As to the walnut, I've found southern black walnut more closely resembles the old grips.

Bob Wright

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Cooldill, yes, as you said.

I recommended spar varnish because it will get really hard and isn't affected by hand heat like polyurethane is. I think spar varnish is what S&W used on their wood grips, but am not sure of that. Real varnish is hard to find and IMHO not as good as the spray stuff. But when using any spray paint or varnish, practice a bit. It is easy to get loose drops and a pimply look. You need to pass the spray over the piece, not try to aim and then start the spray.

Jim

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Spraying a good finish is an art in itself. Depress the button to start the spray before you get to the object being sprayed. Spray across the object, keep the spray going as you spray past the object, stop the spray once clear of the object. The path your hand follows should be a straight path, parallel to the object being sprayed, with the sprayer pointed 90 degrees to the object being sprayed. Do not swoop towards the object. Light coats are better than heavy coats and will help prevent drips. Hang the sprayed object by to dry, preferably hanging it by a coat hanger or something similar, not touching the sprayed area.

On something like a pistol grip, I would spray the bottom first, then let it dry. Then I would spray the sides. Then let it dry, sand lightly, and repeat the process.

 

[owlhoot]

Do NOT sand off the original finish. If you do, you will take off enough wood along the edges so that the grips will no longer perfectly follow the shape of the grip straps. Nothing looks worse than ill fitting grips on a single action. You might try a chemical varnish remover. But it is not a good idea to use steel wool. It will embed in the wood grain. Best idea is to leave the grips alone. If you do insist on refinishing your grips, let me warn you that it is not the simple matter of buying a can of dark walnut stain and slathering it on. You still won't get the color you want.

 

[Saddlebag Preacher]

When you get it let me know what Company is stamped on it. (A-B-C-. etc.)

Mine was F. Co. and I teased everyone who looked at it it was an F-Troop (TV show) gun. Read some history on the 7th cav and where each company was during the battle and you can tell a little history with it.

You can't choose what you get so it's kind of like a cracker jack prize. It will be on the butt of the grip.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Cool

Owlhoot: you seem to be pessimistic!

Thanks everyone else, I am going to look into methods of chemically stripping off the Italian varnish and will apply some dark walnut wood stain, then will use BLO. I may well also do this to a set of Cimarron 1851 Colt Navy revolver grips I have as well!