Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Army safety practices

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Houndawg, Aug 20, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Houndawg

    Houndawg Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Illinois
    Can somebody tell me what idiot came up with bore rodding? For those who don't know, whenever entering or exiting a range, somebody is standing there with a steel rod that is carelessly shoved down the bore of the rifle to make sure it's clear. I cringe everytime they do this, and wonder what the poor rifle ever did to deserve such punishment. They never did this when I was in the Marine Corps. The Corps actually taught us to take care of our rifles.
     
  2. fgr39

    fgr39 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    350
    Location:
    MD
    I don't know who came up with it but I feel the same way. It burns me up when I see some retard grind a rod around the crown trying to shove it down the barrel. of course these are the same idiots that refuse to put any clp on their rifle when qualifing cause it will be more to have to clean and then b!tch about their rifle jamming and how much of a peice of junk it is. Just as a note for all the AR bashers out there, in 11 years in the Army I can't recall a single malfuction in any of my issued M-16s.
     
  3. Sergeant Sabre

    Sergeant Sabre Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,202
    Location:
    Michigan
    When I was in the Marines ('99-'04) you broke your rifle down and they looked down to bore to make sure it was clear and unobstructed. When leaving after shooting, everybody formed up at the range exit with all magazine pouches open and magazine followers visible at the top of every empty magazine, and bolt open so a coach can inspect the chamber for a round. When the coach came around to each Marine, you were required to make a legal declaration: "I have no brass, trash, or live rounds". I dunno what brass or trash has to do with anything, but not having live rounds was important.

    I can see the Army doing what you said, though. They don't care about accuracy and most of those dog-faced soldiers don't really know how to use that rifle anyway :neener: :D

    [flame suit on] :D
     
  4. Byron

    Byron Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,027
    Location:
    TN
    The Army does care about accuracy. I was in basic, March 1968. Leaving the rifle range, we lined up in two columns with the muzzles pointing out,the bolt open, magazine out and the weapon on safety. We had to state no brass or ammo. The rifle was the M-14. The trainee in front of me had the bolt closed,safety off and finger on the trigger with the muzzle pointed at the Sgt.The Drill Sgt ordered the bolt open. A live round came out. I did not see the trainee again.
    The same procedure was followed in Infantry AIT. I do not recall the rod scaping the inside of the barrels. It is a safety procedure used for trainess to prevent accidents. These rifles shot well. Byron
     
  5. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    20,452
    Location:
    Norra Texas
    US Army, circa 1983-1989 - we lined up with muzzles pointed up/downrange, actions opened, and with the ejection port facing the Rangemaster/Instructor. "No brass, no ammo" was the standard declaration, followed by a visible check of the action by the Rangemaster/Instructor.

    At no point did anybody stuck anything down the bore of the weapon to ensure that it was cleared.
     
  6. Turk

    Turk Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    USA
    The reason for the cleaning rod down the bore was to be sure there wasn't a round chambered or obstruction in the bore. Can't you just see what the news would be "Basic Trainee shoots fellow trainee by accident?" It's all a safety thing.

    Sergeant Sabre, your post.

    //////// can see the Army doing what you said, though. They don't care about accuracy and most of those dog-faced soldiers don't really know how to use that rifle anyway ///////

    You're not quite right. In Vietnam we didn't worry about aimed shots due to the fact we were using blanks. Now you know why Army grunts M-16's worked and jar heads M-16 didn't. Blanks put less wear on the receiver and barrel


    :D

    Have a good day and remember to pray for our troops.

    Turk;)
     
  7. Destructo6

    Destructo6 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,997
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Well, my experience on a Marine Corps range and subsequent cleanup was a bit different. We walked up with actions locked to the rear. An instructor sprayed 3-4 shots of CLP into the open action with a spray bottle. With CLP dripping out of the magwell, we took our positions, waited for the command, then commenced fired. After firing, we lined up, were checked for live ammo/brass, then walked off the line.

    This is where the real fun began. We cleaned those M16s so much and with such poor equipment that they probably would have been better off not being cleaned at all. Sectional cleaning rods from the muzzle end, screwed up bore brushes, bent patch holders, filthy CLP (6 people per ammo can filled with CLP), you name it. In order to turn them in, an instructor had to be able to rub a single Q-tip on several areas (flash hider, bolt, bowells of the lower, etc) without that Q-tip turning more than grey.

    I was most unimpressed.
     
  8. VG

    VG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    657
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Disdaining the Army is Marine Corps doctrine. As independent thought or action is not allowed by this doctrine, you are absolved.
     
  9. Gunsnrovers

    Gunsnrovers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    Bore rodding goes way back to the land of muskets and it's a fast way to check for obstructions and ammunition when you've got a lot of folks to clear in a short period of time.

    If you don't hear that nice metalic "ting", somethings done gone wrong.
     
  10. Houndawg

    Houndawg Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Illinois
    Gunsnrovers,

    I realize why it's done, but I still cringe.



    Destructo,

    When I was in boot camp at San Diego in 87, we all had our own buttstock cleaning kits with our own little bottles of CLP. We were taught the correct methods and the correct amounts to put on the different parts. Our a2's were brand new and they were expected to look that way when we turned them in. No DI or PMI would have stood there with a bottle of CLP to drench our rifles with.
     
  11. Redlg155

    Redlg155 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,724
    Location:
    NW Florida
    I went into the Army in 1987 as a 13B (Field Artillery). Standard procedure was to line up and have one of the range officers run a rod down your barrel until it tapped the bolt face and the bolt released. Back then we were still using crappy old M16A1s.

    Heck, it wasn't until about a year before we left for Iraq in the early 90s that we were issued M16A2s. And we were a heavy mech rapid deployment unit. Go figure that one out. Commanders and 1st Sgts still carried the 1911 and maintainance still had the ol M3 grease gun .45s.

    Good Shooting
    Red
     
  12. Langenator

    Langenator Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,689
    Location:
    Ft Belvoir, VA
    FYI-

    the rods are brass, not steel. At least the ones we use are. Using cleaning rods is a no-no.
     
  13. redneck

    redneck Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,144
    Location:
    Ohio
    Am I the only one who thinks regardless of wear and tear, its a pretty moronic idea to shove anything down the bore of a gun you think might be loaded? Especially when its in the hands of someone that was too stupid to clear it by themself :confused:
     
  14. goon

    goon Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Messages:
    7,246
    It was my experience that the Army was incredibly lax on teaching safe gun handling. We never had even one lesson. I still shiver when I think of idiots running around in our barracks pointing their rifles at eachother like they were toys.
    I said something to them about it.
    The reply?
    "It doesn't have any ammo in it."

    :eek:
     
  15. Redhat

    Redhat Member.

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    678
    Excuse me gents, but doen't the M16A2 operator's manual say to clean the weapon by inserting the rod into the muzzle? And how does one clean the M1 or M14 from the rear (breech)?

    Just curious

    Thanks
     
  16. SOT_II

    SOT_II Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Messages:
    110
    Much a do about nothing:

    Most are No brass no ammo...if they do stick a rod down it's brass and the barrels are chrome lined...the barrels will wear out from shooting and normal cleaning WELL before a rond down the barrel once a range session makes any noticeble difference.
     
  17. Houndawg

    Houndawg Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Illinois
    SOT_II,

    They don't use brass rods on our rifles, they use steel rods. And wallowing the rod around the crown trying to get it into the bore doesn't help one bit. It's just an all around stupid practice and the safety check could be accomplished other ways.
     
  18. Redhat

    Redhat Member.

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    678
    WE check the bore without using a rod. The shooters lock it to the rear, then the line instructors come along and open the receivers, remove the bolt carrier to check the bore, then close it and make it rack safe. After that it's off to the cleaning area.
     
  19. Destructo6

    Destructo6 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,997
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    My experience in this case was Field Medical Service School (run and instructed by USMC) in 1994, at Camp Pendleton. I was shocked and disgusted.
     
  20. Destructo6

    Destructo6 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,997
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Dbl tap due to sluggish server.
     
  21. VG

    VG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    657
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Who is they?

    I went through Infantry OSUT in 1981 and was a Corporal in the same unit for six months before going to OCS. And one of the Senior NCO's was a former member of the Army Marksmanship Unit, also at Fort Benning as is the Sniper School. He put a clip of .45 through the face of a silhoutte target at 50 meters, by way of demonstration, and he was years past his competition days. As the AMU builds their own weapons, they also know a thing or two about maintenance.

    If and when a bore was rodded, it was done so with an unsectioned brass rod that had a circle on the end for a handle so it could be pulled back out. It was done by the Safety NCO, who was personally responsible for insuring that every weapon was clear. I never saw it done in any regular unit - only BRM training.

    By contrast, my brother was a Marine Corps Infantry Company Commander. I'm thus somewhat more familiar with the fundamentals of marksmanship taught by these services than most. BTW, guess who trained his son to shoot? Most of us that have compared the training in detail believe that elements of both should be incorporated, but both services are too hide-bound to change. There are plenty of active duty Marines who wish they had M4 Carbines now that they are mostly vehicle borne, as one example.

    There is simply no sense arguing with a closed mind. The Marines seem to teach disdain for the Army - it helps define them, or used to. And Marines Corps recruiting appeals to a particular mindset that reiforces this. As one book says, "Marine Corps training may not make better infantrymen, but they make better Marines." By contrast, I don't remember the Marine Corps even being mentioned in my Army training.

    Nowadays, the active duty forces are so short-handed that everybody goes everywhere. Everything is "Joint" and a Navy Commander told me he's had more Army than Marine Corps officers on his bridge in the last year, as one example of how much things have changed.

    If somebody is fighting for us, as long as it says U.S. I don't really care what the rest of the tag says, and good luck to them all. None of them care what old civilian veterans say in internet forums, nor should.
     
  22. Houndawg

    Houndawg Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Illinois
    "They" refers to our range safety NCOs.
     
  23. VG

    VG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    657
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    What range safety NCO's? At an Army base? Which one? Are you in the Army, or NG, or? Or were you just an observer?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2004
  24. Houndawg

    Houndawg Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Illinois
    IL ARNG. I've had it done at multiple ranges.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2004
  25. SOT_II

    SOT_II Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Messages:
    110
    You must have been in a different Army than I, the range NCO's used a brass cleaning rod at Ft. Benning same stipid one from the cleaning kit..and even still a steel rod in a chrome lined barrel in a weekend warriors gun or even active duty gun once each pass at range, ain't gonna do much in the life cycle of the gun or barrel and it's "potential" accuracy.

    Much a do about nothing...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page