Army selects Vortex for Next Generation Squad Weapon – Fire Control Optic

[LiveLife]

The U.S. Army Selected Vortex to provide its Next Generation Squad Weapon - Fire Control Optic XM157 - https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/vortex-selected-to-produce-army-ngsw-fire-control-optic/

• 1-8x30 mm Low Powered Variable Optic (LPVO) with a glass-etched reticle on lenses made entirely in the United States.
• The fire control weighs less than many traditional LPVOs with current weapon-mounted laser rangefinders and mounts.
• Integrated Picatinny base houses the Vortex Active Reticle system
• Injects a digitally displayed image into the first focal plane of the optic
• Allows for intuitive displays to support ballistic drops, reticle shapes and sizes, and additional modes to display way points, identified threats and fields of fire
• Enables the unit to range a target, send the information to an on-board ballistic solver, gather atmospheric information, and display an illuminated Active Reticle with the corrected aimpoint with wind holds in the sight picture. The solution takes tenths of a second
• XM157 can be controlled via an on-board keypad or a detachable remote.

00:00 - NGSW-FC Intro
08:44 - A Traditional LPVO at its Core
16:22 - Smart Scope Technology
19:43 - The “Active Reticle™” (Rendering)
23:40 - Smart Scope Technology (Continued)
29:07 - Size/Weight
33:08 - Laser Rangefinder (What’s “The Box on Top”?) and Interfaces
42:53 - Battery and Power
44:58 - NGSW-FC Closing Thoughts
​

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Congrats to them and great to see them making things in the US.

Does Vortex have an actual US plant or did they sub parts of this out?
Anything else in their line made in the US? If so, I need to look at them more.

Have some of their stuff (all off shore made) and like it well enough but prefer US made.

 

[Nature Boy]

Innovation is great but the core discipline on the battlefield still remains - the ability to shoot, move and communicate.

What happens when all that tech fails? Can the soldier still fight the battle?

It’s been a question in my mind since GPS became so integrated in military and civilian use. What happens when the batteries in your Garmin die and the logistical supply chain can’t get you fresh ones?

Can you read a map and use a compass? Do you know how to perform terrain association?

 

[Hasaf]

I am actually surprised, I thought Vortex was another China-made reseller. Of course, that exposure is part of why those military contracts are so valuable.

 

[SharpDog]

Congrats to them and great to see them making things in the US.

Does Vortex have an actual US plant or did they sub parts of this out?
Anything else in their line made in the US? If so, I need to look at them more.

Have some of their stuff (all off shore made) and like it well enough but prefer US made.

They will be making this in the US. I think it's in Wisconsin.

 

[LiveLife]

What happens when all that tech fails? Can the soldier still fight the battle?

Apparently there is back up iron sight provision.

I am actually surprised, I thought Vortex was another China-made reseller.

made entirely in the United States

All 250,000 units.

They will be making this in the US. I think it's in Wisconsin.

And I have a feeling Vortex may offer a civilian version, perhaps also made in the USA.

 

[Nuclear]

Assembled in Wisconsin doesn’t mean the chips and/or glass isn’t made overseas.

I may be biased after two negative experiences with Vortex products in the past. Their customer service is very good, but on the battlefield that isn’t that important, I think.

 

[LiveLife]

Assembled in Wisconsin doesn’t mean the chips and/or glass isn’t made overseas.

IIRC, "Made in USA" requires 75% of US made components and I believe it's like 50% for US government contracts.

I may be biased after two negative experiences with Vortex products in the past. Their customer service is very good, but on the battlefield that isn’t that important, I think.

I have a feeling Vortex XM157 NGSW optics will have different testing and QC process to survive combat usage conditions and likely carry much higher price tag.

 

[greyling22]

An experimental/novel optic with massive amounts of onboard electronics being handed to army grunts. "Made" by a company that as far as I can tell, manufactures nothing, that has built a reputation based on stellar customer service that an alarmingly high number of people have had to use. Vortex is lately exhibiting declining quality and non-existent QC. What could possibly go wrong.

 

[LiveLife]

Time will tell.

Vortex either delivers or fall flat on their face.

 

[FL-NC]

I have been satisfied with all of my Vortex products- several different red dots and a couple of adequate scopes I use on my hunting rifles. I have also used some of their range finders and binos for hunting out west, and had no issues with them. There are a few Vortex products from the higher $ tier of the company that have been in use in SOF units for a while.

 

[LiveLife]

There are a few Vortex products from the higher $ tier of the company that have been in use in SOF units for a while.

I am curious what selection criteria and testing procedures were used for Army to decide on Vortex.

Update: Found it - https://www.breachbangclear.com/5-companies-armys-next-generation-infantry-optic/

"The Army wants a sort of “all in one” optic that can range find, deliver target direction and atmospheric variables to the shooter so they can better take advantage of the 6.8’s range and lethality ...

Vortex Optics 1-8×30 Active Reticle Fire Control is built around a revolutionary technology based on many years of internal research and development, along with multiple cooperative development efforts with the Army’s PM-Soldier Weapons group ... end result is Active Reticle, which has been proven to increase hit percentage and decrease time to engage during US Army Soldier touchpoints ..."​

https://www.army.mil/article/208614/airborne_testing_for_next_generation_weapon_sight_complete

"... 82nd Airborne Division Soldiers began working with the Airborne and Special Operations Test Directorate (ABNSOTD) on the Family of Weapons Sights-Individual (FWS-I), using tactics the parachutists are most renowned for ... Soldiers ... conducted nearly 50 static line airborne test trials with the FWS-I, jumping two separate rigging configurations. After the airborne operations, the Soldiers performed function checks on the systems and confirmed bore sighting was maintained ... The sight mated to the host weapon was then evaluated for shock induced bore sight reticle movement which would signal a potential loss of the weapon zero."​

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...ks-an-optic-for-next-generation-squad-weapon/

"Vortex Optics subsidiary Sheltered Wings has been selected to build as many as 250,000 Next Generation Squad Weapon – Fire Control systems at a starting price of about $2.7 billion over the next decade ...

The new optic will basically be a computer atop the weapon, calculating range, ballistics, atmospherics, directional information, digital overlay and wireless features to link to devices such as the still-developing Integrated Visual Augmentation System, the Army’s new “do-it-all” goggle expected to begin fielding later this year.

The NGSW-FC will replace the close combat optic, rifle combat optic and machine gun optic."​

 

[FL-NC]

The new optic will basically be a computer atop the weapon, calculating range, ballistics, atmospherics, directional information, digital overlay and wireless features to link to devices such as the still-developing Integrated Visual Augmentation System,[/QUOTE
This isn't new- systems that did all of this via blue tooth technology, slaved into range finders and weather meters synched into optics have been in use for quite a while, mostly in the sniper role in selected units during the late unpleasantness.

 

[jmr40]

My experience with Vortex is primarily with their lower to mid level products. IME they are comparable in quality to other brands selling in the same price range. I bet this isn't cheap.

 

[Wireguided Marine]

I think this is a step in the right direction for the army. If it works the scope will improve a soldier’s accuracy with every shot. And if they can connect them in a network it will aid in situational awareness.

I saw the such a leap in performance when Marines went from iron sights to red dots. While there are risks with new technology the gains are worth it. People who struggled with iron sights performed much better with ACOGs at short to medium ranges.

 

[Crosshair]

Laser rangefinders are already becoming a liability on tanks. Modern systems can detect the rough angle the laser came from and be set to automatically slew the turret to the direction the laser came from and even auto-deploy smoke. I'm not aware of any such systems for infantry, but MILES gear has been used for decades and uses laser detectors. It will be interesting to see what happens.

The last thing you need is someone unintentionally lasing a tank or IFV while just observing and suddenly finding themselves on the receiving end of 30mm-125mm shells.

 

[greyling22]

[QUOTE="LiveLife, post: 12277224, member: 113916

"Vortex Optics subsidiary Sheltered Wings has been selected to build as many as 250,000 Next Generation Squad Weapon – Fire Control systems at a starting price of about $2.7 billion over the next decade ...
​

[/QUOTE]

Starting price of 2.7 billion, let's round up to 3 billion. Divided by a max number of 250,000 comes out to about $12,000 per optic. Unless I'm missing something, Are you kidding me?! Stupid government wasting my money.....

 

[Jackiesman]

Personally I am totally torqued that the U.S. Army selected the vortex sights!!! Vortex is made in China!!!! There are several very good, reputable U.S. companies that offer as good or better optics and we desperately need to use U.S. made products. And while MANY companies say “American made” if you look closely you will discover that they actually say “Americas Based”, not “American made”. That usually means that the component(s) are made/ manufactured in other countries, but “MAY” be partially or totally assembled in the U.S., OR SIMPLY marketed by a U.S. company.

Anyway, I urge American to shop and buy American manufactured products, not China products. And just as an example for shooters, both Japan and Germany glass is as good or better than China.

 

[BigBL87]

Starting price of 2.7 billion, let's round up to 3 billion. Divided by a max number of 250,000 comes out to about $12,000 per optic. Unless I'm missing something, Are you kidding me?! Stupid government wasting my money.....

I imagine that probably includes additional accessories, servicing of optics, etc., so I doubt it is that much straight up per optic. I am assuming the optics are at least several thousand apiece though, with all the bells and whistles they have built in. With how much they have going on, I'm interested to see how they fare and survive in real battlefield conditions.

 

[rbernie]

Vortex is made in China!!!!

Some are, but most are made in the Philippines or Japan. Specific to this optic, it will be manufactured in the US.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Innovation is great but the core discipline on the battlefield still remains - the ability to shoot, move and communicate.

What happens when all that tech fails? Can the soldier still fight the battle?

It’s been a question in my mind since GPS became so integrated in military and civilian use. What happens when the batteries in your Garmin die and the logistical supply chain can’t get you fresh ones?

Can you read a map and use a compass? Do you know how to perform terrain association?

Good questions.

Soldiers are still taught basic land nav. Use of GPS is limited to a few, usually associated with additional training. With that said, while soldiers may have a compass and have basic land nav training, they won't all have maps on the battlefield.

What happens when tech fails? People asked that about regular optics all the time and have for decades. Optics tend to go down less often than the actual guns they are mounted on, so until we get 100% reliable guns...

Except for some of the food consumed, dogs, and other soldiers, pretty much all the necessary kit is technology. It has all been known to fail. You asked about reading a compass. What if the compass gets broken?

Getting back to the OP's post, the new sights are pretty nifty. How effectively they will be used beyond basic sighting may be another matter. The potential will be there for soldiers to make better shots at longer distances, but that will come with some additional steps on their parts which may or may not be followed in battle. So it will be interesting to see how effectively the sights are used.

I think from what we have seen in the past, a lot of newly introduced technology won't be as effectively used initially by soldiers who have to be retrained as by soldiers who come in and get it from the start.

 

[LiveLife]

Most of your questions and comments were answered/covered by the attached podcast in the OP but I will cover the highlights:

• 12:45 - XM157 will be assembled and built in Barneveld, Wisconsin

• Uses USA made lenses from different suppliers which allows "greater versatility ... and control of lens" in terms of quality control and inspection (Very few scope manufacturers source lenses from USA suppliers currently)
• Sourcing machined and molded parts from "quality" USA vendors
• Focusing on USA made as much as possible (AFAIK, to satisfy "Made in USA" requires 75%+ US made components and 50%+ for government contracts)

• 17:10 - "See through ... full-functioning display is injected" into the first focal plane so soldiers won't need to move eye from scope to display. (12:35 - When power is off, normal optics functions remain instead of a "black screen") Augmented reality mode allows soldiers to tag targets and waypoints to share with other soldiers via integrated wireless chip that allows real-time communication.

• 20:00 - Vortex is not allowed to share actual picture of display but can use "rendering" of the display to show what the soldiers will see on the display. Reticle color options are yellow, green, red and orange with size and shape options. Has "red dot" only option for CQB. 2-8x allows range option with environmental sensors that calculate bullet compensation calculations and shows illuminated aimpoint all done within 1/10th of a second. 1-8x30mm scope has integrated mount to eliminate play and save weight.

• 30:00 - Many comments to the video "claimed" heaviness of the unit without actually having handled the unit. XM157 is surprisingly "light" and weighs less than comparable 1-8x30mm scope and range finding units commercially available. 3 lasers including IR for night vision are co-aligned so only one adjustment is needed.

• 38:40 - Once rate of fulfillment to Army (And now Marines) is met upto 250K units, Vortex will release a "civilian" version of XM157.

• 40:25 - Unit has already undergone durability, water immersion, hot/freezing, shock/vibration and 10K+ mounted shooting tests and PASSED. Army tested other units from more traditional military contractors but Vortex won the contract based on test results.

• 42:50 - Uses two CR123A and battery life is several weeks based on Army mission specs.

• 46:15 - Vortex is a small business, not a traditional defense contractor and has no Washington lobbyists or retired generals on staff. XM157 is state-of-the-art that will revolutionalize war fighting of the future.

 

[LiveLife]

This video was released by Vortex prior to the podcast mentioned in the OP and previous post.

• 2:20 - XM157 does not share components with any of the current optics offerings from Vortex as it is a brand new design from ground up.

• 5:57 - Easy to use with one button zero (Center the target on the reticle of the scope and push button either on remote or side keypad of optic) with automatic range finding, elevation/windage/cant firing solution displayed as an illuminated dot on the display done within 1/10th of a second.

 

[Old Dog]

I find it interesting that since the announcement that Vortex would be a supplier of optics for the U.S. military, the MSRP for some Vortex LPVOs (i.e., Strike Eagle) went up about $150 or more.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Looks like a slick rig. It’s a step to progress and we need that more than ever.

Someone above griped about the price tag.

Shame on you.

Our soldiers and Marines need the very best most advanced money can buy to help save there lives and to help neautralize threats so they can complete the mission and get back to their wives and kids.