Arrested by ignorant LEO for CCW out of state

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Alan Fud

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careful who you ask questions

I am currently on vacation in Ft. Walton Beach Fla, Being from Michigan and never haveing carryed a gun out of state, I thought it might be a good idea to check for sure about any resriction Fla. might have that I know nothing about.
So down to the local police dept. I go. I am introduced to a patrolman and put the question to him. Right away he gets suspicious. Do I have the gun on me? Give me your Michigan permit.Ect. He could find nothing out of order. And says the Michigan permit means nothing here in Fla. "not worth the paper it is written on"
Now I know better than that.
So I go to the Sheriffs office, same question.
He says" We have an agreement with Michigan, your permit is the same as ours. You go by the same rules as if you were home in Michigan, plus our rules here. If you want to buy a pistol you have to wait three days before you can pick it up. Any more questions?"
I ask him for his name and badge number, he gave it to me and never flinched. Then I shook hands with him.
I really like second opinions, been carryin here every since.
Click to expand...
... got me thinking but instead of taking the original thread off-line, I decided to start this new one.

Suppose while LEGALLY carrying out-of-state, you are discovered (say you volunteer this information at a routine traffic stop just to be on the "safe side") to be carrying by one of these LEO's who is ignorant of the fact that your out of state CCW is legal and places you under arrest?

With a good lawyer, I'm sure that you could get off but you would have the legal fees and the arrest on your record which would no doubt complicate matters every time you went to buy a gun or renewed your CCW.
 
Any prosecutor worth his or her salt would be able to determine the legality, especially if you furnish said info pretrial, thereby negating your legal fee worry. (Not always, but generally I would imagine)

As far as complications in buying guns and/or renewing a CCW permit, arrests are not disqualifying as long as you're not currently under indictment at the time, etc. NICS doesn't look at arrest records.....it looks at disqualifying convictions and things of that nature. Same with CCW applications in this state (WA) anyway. You can be arrested countless times (with possible exceptions of DV) and not be affected in this process.

The arrest would be on your record, but I think this would be of little consequence. Most run-of-the-mill background checks look at convictions only in my experience.
 
I did it yesterday!

I had to go into another state to pick up materials and TOTALLY FORGOT I had my piece with me. I'm always saying how I forget it's there, well I sure did. So I don't remember until I see a cruiser waiting at the light across from me. Then it hits me OMG! :eek: So I laid out my choices, chase the cop down and turn myself in or go about my business and skeedaddle out of there ASAP observing all local speed limits and other traffic laws. Can I turn right on red here? I DON"T REMEMBER,,,AHHHHH!! To the best of my knowledge my CCW is not valid in said state.

Made it out without mishap though.

:)

oh, around here if your charges are dismissed or nollied or "Accelerated Rehabbed" they expunge the arrest in your records and technically you were never arrested and there is no record of it.
 
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Would you want to be the LEO who did this? Me thinks that the DA would have a few choice words for the officer that does. :D Just think of the liability issues this could bring up, with the right shark on your side!! :evil:


Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
 
What I tell my guys: do NOT assume that the po-po know the law. Carry a copy of the state's statute with you. If stopped, show the statute to him. In some states the police have condensed versions of the criminal code that the DA gives them. Good idea to have one of these books, if you can find them. If he inisists, ensure you make a record (ask about a camera, have him call dispatch, etc.) and ask that he call a supervisor to the scene.

If he refuses and just wants to cuff and stuff you, go along peacefully [do not try the case on the street, I'll repeat that, do not sit there and argue, it will become a "resisting" very soon] and we'll sort it out later. Always carry a few hundred for bond, although it may be much more depending on location.

Remain cool at all times. It will help you in the long run. :)
 
In some states the police have condensed versions of the criminal code that the DA gives them. Good idea to have one of these books, if you can find them.
Click to expand...

Actually, sometimes the Reader's Digest version of the statutes the cops carry ARE the problem.

I've heard of several cases where the digest failed to mention certain definitions or exemptions, making what was in fact a lawful act appear unlawful.

The example that comes to mind, IIRC, was VA's open carry law. There was a section prohibiting open carry of firearms, but the operative definition of firearm relevant to the section was "firearm capable of taking a high capacity magazine >= 20 rounds" THAT part wasn't included in the statute digest. :fire:

It's best to have all the relevant text when doing something not widely understood as lawful.
 
I always assume that the cops don't know the law. Back in 1989, I asked, at different times, two sheriff deputies, two state troopers, and one town cop how I was supposed to transport a firearm in my vehicle. I got several totally different answers. Then, to really throw them off, since most of their answers involved a "glove-box" or trunk, I asked them how would you transport a firearm if the only vehicle you owned was a motorcycle, and it had no form of trunk, glove box, or saddle bag on it.......I stumped all of them for an answer. Most of them admitted that they had absolutely no idea. :confused:
 
In Nevada open carry is Legal, it is also legal to carry in your car.

One time i was pulled over by NHP for speeding, I had a loaded Bersa Thunder in the center compartment. First thing out of the officers mouth was "do i have a weapon?" I told him i did and where it was, his eye's got really big all the sudden. He had me down load the weapon and put it in the trunk. When all was said and done he let me off with a warning for the speeding and said nothing of the gun after i put it in the trunk. I was suprised because i knew it was legall but i had a florida drivers license at the time, the officer was very nice and never gave me any trouble or acted like i was a fellon.
 
One of my friends, a concealed handgun permit holder, was arrested on our university campus by an officer during a stop for a speeding violation.
The officer arrested him because my friend did not inform the officer immediately that he is a CHP holder even though HE HAD NO GUN on him. :uhoh:

Like every other state you are responsible for informing every LEO you encounter that you are carrying a gun. Of course, you don't have to inform them that you are carrying a gun WHEN YOU'RE NOT CARRYING A GUN.

He is one heck of an intelligent officer isn't he?

Anyway, my friend says the officer got a tounge lashing by the judge at the pretrial hearing, the charges were dismissed, and the officer was required to pay all court fees and my firend's attourney fees.
I don't even know how this got as far as a pretrial hearing :scrutiny:
 
Like every other state you are responsible for informing every LEO you encounter that you are carrying a gun. Of course, you don't have to inform them that you are carrying a gun WHEN YOU'RE NOT CARRYING A GUN.
Click to expand...

Or if your state doesn't require it.:)
 
Fumbler,

Not all the states are the same ;) .

Which is of course the reason to know/ have a general knowledge of local laws before you go there. I have a feeling that I would get in more trouble with one of your local cops than you would with one of mine.

Greg
 
"Anyway, my friend says the officer got a tounge lashing by the judge at the pretrial hearing, the charges were dismissed, and the officer was required to pay all court fees and my firend's attourney fees.
I don't even know how this got as far as a pretrial hearing"
 
Bear in mind the sheriif erred about buying a gun in another state. Against federal law to purchase a handgun out of state even from an FFL and even with a permit to carry.
 
Several years ago a colleague make a traffic stop. The occupants of the vehicle are two Marines on leave-headed home; and both possessed out of state CHL's. My colleague asked me if Texas recognized the out of state CHL. I told him that I didn't know whether or not Texas recognized it, but that WE would tonight. I added that the Marines didn't need a ticket either.
 
Makes it tough for us here in Vermont. We and anyone visiting can carry any way they want. I hate it when I head to New York (Plattsburg) for the afternoon, forgetting their laws. :what:
 
"With a good lawyer, I'm sure that you could get off but you would have the legal fees and the arrest on your record which would no doubt complicate matters every time you went to buy a gun or renewed your CCW."

If you are arrested and it is for a crime which does not exist (ie you had an out of state permit with reciprocity) call your local bar association and ask for a civil rights lawyer recommendation. You have just won the lawsuit lottery.
 
I simply can't see this as a serious concern. Before I travel, I check packing.org; if necessary, I'll call or e-mail a state's attorney general's office or state police office. Also, if I can't find the exact information I need (or I want clarification), most states now have incredibly easy access online access to its laws. For example, this state (WA), has the entire RCW (Revised Code of Washington) on its website. Dry reading, to be sure, but there's no excuse with the technology we have now for not being informed. About the only thing we need to keep up with these days is reciprocity agreements, but this information is all out there and updated regularly.

Of course, there may be the odd, uninformed LEO out there ... but to speculate on an arrest for unlawful CCW if there is in fact reciprocity and the gun's being carried in accordance with that state's laws... hmm...
 
Perhaps I could make some suggestions:

1) drive the speed limit
2) stop for redlights, stop signs, etc .........
3) keep your vehicle in good condition
4) dress reasonably neatly
5) don't hang out in bars
6) be polite, don't cause trouble, etc ...
7) don't volunteer any unnecessary information

which will keep you 99.99% safe from LEOs of every state :rolleyes: ;)
 
Good advice TallPine.

As I've told folks in my community who want to play the question game of "What If"............."Do nothing to bring attention to yourself and I will pay no attention to you". Common sense should rule.
 
TallPine, I must respectfully disagree. I've been hassled by police several times when I have done absolutely nothing wrong. And then there was the one time where I did something wrong but they thought I had done something else wrong that I didn't actually do. Anyway, I'd say following your guidelines will keep you about 80% safe...less if you're young. Some cops do have it out for certain people.... Basically, you won't stay safe from 99.99% of cops because less than 99.99% of cops are actually good. It's probably closer to 95% :)

Seriously, I'm all for obeying the law...most of the time.
 
Well, Liquid - I don't know what the difference is :confused:
Maybe you live in a different kind of place (I've been from TX to AK), maybe times have changed, or maybe you somehow look different to cops?

The cops never bothered me when I was younger either. Of course, I was pretty boring too - didn't drive hot cars or anything. Got off with a couple warnings when I probably should have gotten a ticket.

Worst tangle I ever had with a cop was when I got stopped for not slowing down fast enough when changing speed zones. The dang sign was hidden in the bushes so you couldn't see it until you were too close. Argued with him (firmly but politely) and he relented.

Oh, there was once I got pulled over for doing 55 in a 55 zone :rolleyes:
Turns out my pickup camper back door was swinging in the breeze ;)

I haven't been stopped for more than 20 years now.
 
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