Arrggg... Brownells and MD!

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dghboy315

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brownells is really ticking me off.

so i'm trying to take advantage of the sale on 30rnd ar15 mags at brownells. they're $11.25 for ffl 03 holders. since i am in MD, i know that sale of magazine of greater than 20rnds are restricted in MD. so, what i did was put the shipping address as my friends address in VA where there is no restriction. i have done this before. no other company has ever had a problem w/ it. the MD laws restricts sales in MD not by MD residents.

anyways, brownells still won't allow it. i talked a manager there and for some reason, they think b/c i'm a resident of MD i can not buy them anywhere. as long as i have a MD billing address they can not ship it to me even in another state. they said my only solution would be to have a VA resident w/ the dealer discount buy the mags and then i could drive down there and buy it off them. either that or convince mr. brownell he is wrong. aaarrrrgggg....
 
AFAIK, the deal with your 003 is that the shipping address is your primary address. You can't use your FFL and a non-listed address. AFAIK.
 
Instead of getting ticked at brownells, why don't you instead redirect your ire at the politicians who put the 20rnd limit in place? Borwnells is just trying to make sure that they don't break the law.

The law does not say you can't own them, just that the transaction can't happen in MD. To my knowledge, there has never been a ruling as to just "where" a transaction takes place if it happens on the internet (ie buyer in one state, seller in another state, using servers in two more states, etc). One could easily argue either way. Brownells is just playing it safe.
 
oh, i will be running one of these days. as soon as i build my resume to where i can be a contender. and i'm a lawyer (soon to be) so i know the law very well.

but what ticks me off about brownells is that they are becoming one of those companies that wants to anticipate that they think the law will be (think colt) instead of executing what the law actually says.
 
They have to cover their haids to stay in business. I cannot blame them at all. Get an 01 FFl and see how other folks can skirt laws that you have to obey or you're toast.

Brownell's has always treated me well.

BTW it might not be wise stating a plan to circumvent your State's law on a public board!
 
ya know whats really screwy?

theres nothing on the books preventing shipping 30 rounders into washington DC

:rolleyes:
 
Bear Gulch, When every shop around you tells you to go out of state to buy anything higher then 20 rounders I wouldn't worry about one person saying something about it on an internet forum.
 
After rereading your first post, this one is unfortunately all on you.

You asked Brownells to give you a discount based on your 003. Then you asked Brownells to willingly circumvent state law by selling you magazines to a different address. They know you are a MD resident based on your 003. It's an obvious straw man attempt to get around your states restrictions.

If you had gone to their web store, placed the order and put in a shipping address other then your credit card address, your state of residence never comes into play. Of course then you wouldn't have gotten your discount.
 
The law states that it is illegal to purchase/ship 30 round magazines in the state of Maryland. It is not illegal to own 30 round magazines in Maryland. This means it is completely legal for a MD resident to buy/pick up 30 round magazines in another state. Dhgboy did not break any laws.
The law is written clearly on this and yet some people want to give the law more power than what it states. Do you want us to have stricter gun laws?
 
Weird, you can own them, you just can't buy them in state. Don't let the Hawaii Dems hear about that.
 
Put bluntly, I don't blame Brownells. These days everybody on the anti-gun side of the issue, from the Brady Bunch to certain state attorney generals are trying to entrap anyone in the firearms trade. You may interpret the law one way, they another - but the point is that your order isn't big enough to justify Brownells' taking a chance given Maryland's well justified reputation for being what they are. You set this thing up when you requested that something that was obviously illegal in your state of residence be sent to an out-of-state address. Was Brownells supposed to think that they were a birthday gift for a second party? Why, Brownells must have wondered - didn't the person who was receiving the magazines order them for himself? The obvious answer was because the buyer in Maryland was trying to evade the law. They wouldn't touch this, and neither would I. :fire:

It's unfortunate that you have to live in a state like Maryland. But until you leave you're going to have to put up with the consequences of their laws. So lay off of Brownells and take out your outrage on those who are really responsible for your trouble.
 
dghboy315,
Brownell's order placed. Thanks for the heads up!!
That's the best deal on AR mags I've seen since the ban's demise.

I know a real good real estate agent here in Utah if you need one. :D
 
From Packing.org under Maryland:

High Capacity Magazines or Feeding Devices.
“A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine that has a capacity of more than 20 rounds of ammunition for a firearm.†Md. Criminal Law Code § 4-305(b)This section does not apply to a .22 caliber rifle with a tubular magazine. Section 4-305(a).

Again, since you don't seem to want to hear it, when he asked Brownells to use his 003 discount, he declared himself a resident of Maryland. Brownells is not going to knowingly and willingly violate the laws of that state to fill an order.

The C&R 003 license is not a license to deal. It is for personal use. The reasonable expectation is that someone using this license to secure a discount would be for personal use as well. Personal use, in this case, is in Maryland where there are restrictions on 30 round magazines.

You want to go play gray area with the law, go ahead. You want to change the law, take up the fight. Asking someone else to risk their business and livelyhood just for you is silly. :rolleyes:
 
I am afraid I concur with Gunsandrovers. You ask them to break the law and get mad when they won't.
 
first, i am just venting. second, i don't want this to turn into one of "those" threads.

but i still maintain that no law would have been violated. first, there is no case law on the subject, so the only thing we have to go on it the text of the statute. thank you, Gunsnrovers, for posting the statute. but, you must understand is that the statute must be interpreted as "in MD" b/c states can not regulate actions in other states. for example, MD can not say it is illegal for people to drink pepsi in WV. MD can also not regulate the action of its citizens in other state. for example, all MD residents must wear seat belts in CA. (ok, there are some, but very limited exceptions to this and it is not applicable here). basically, only a state can regulate people w/in its boarders. as applied to our situation, this means any person in the state of MD can not "manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine that has a capacity of more than 20 rounds of ammunition for a firearm†in the state of MD. i hope everone agrees w/ me so far.

ok, i was in DC when i called brownells. brownells is in Iowa. how can MD regulate any part of this sale?

some of you have referred to my discount. but, my conversation w/ the brownells representative had nothing to do w/ my discount. it was not even brought up. even without the discount, brownells would not have shipped me the mags because the rep said i was a MD resident. the legal issue we are discussing has to do w/ the location of the transaction and NOT with the residency status of the buyer. this is why i'm mad. the legal counsel of brownells, if they have it, did not understand this basic princple of law. i fault them for not understanding the law.

now, on the flip side, b/c i want to be fair, is that there is one argument that if i paid by credit card, the billing address is a MD address. ok, that is somewhat valid, but i find it unconvincing. the credit card statement is sent to MD. but the credit card company is actually paying the bill. i owe the credit card company. and the my credit card company had it's address in DC. the statement is simply telling me what they paid for me and what i owe the. so again i don't think this violates the law.

that all having been said, i still love brownells. there service and products to me have always been top notch. i was very polite w/ the sales people on the phone and i said to them i understood they were only doing their job. i will still be doing business w/ brownells. i'm just disappointed that brownells, has misinterpreted this particular law.
 
I really don't want a peeing contest either. I am just encouraging you to see it from the vendor's position. If they do something that even APPEARS bad, the ATF can crawl all over them. The mags would be shipped by mail, giving some Federal prosecutor climb onthem. For a small sale, it is a lot of hassle to go through. If you order something on you 03, they are obligated to send it to the address on the license period.

If your buddy has an 03 have him order them and pay him back. Or figure out some way to get them that doesn't put the vendor in a potential bind. I guess since getting my 01 FFL, I have learned to be far more sensitive to the sellers perspective.
 
oh, and i forgot, it also matters what the MD state AG says. afterall, it is the AG that has the ultimate say in those matters. i don't think they have made a ruling oon this issue but i will check.
 
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