Arsenal or Lanchaster AK-47 ?

[jece]

Arsenal or Lanchaster which would you choose? and why ( 7.62x39 AK-47) Thanks jece.

 

[Cannonball888]

Lancaster (no h). They do very good work. I hear Arsenal is good too but I don't own one so I can't compare the two.

 

[Maverick223]

I own neither, but look into a Saiga, they are very good for the money, and conversions are easily performed if you are worried about that.

 

[chris in va]

Ditto. Why spend ~$1000 on a built AK when you can do it yourself for considerably less. Saiga x39's are running about $420 right now and the conversion process isn't that hard.

 

[sernv99]

either one is fine. I wouldn't attempt a DIY conversion on a Saiga if you are really not sure on how to go about it. Yeah, some on here says it's as easy as tying your shoes but not everyone is equal in DIY mechanical aptitude. Also, for resell, it will be a bit harder to sell if the conversion was done by yourself vs. a well experienced pro like Tromix or Redjacket who backs up their work.

 

[nalioth]

Also, for resell, it will be a bit harder to sell if the conversion was done by yourself vs. a well experienced pro like Tromix or Redjacket who backs up their work.

Buying guns for resale is a felony, w/o a license.

You also have to think:

Joe Smith buys a Saiga, and converts it himself. Total cost ~$550

A year later he gets laid off and needs to eat, so he goes to sell the Saiga. Do you think he can sell it for what he's got in it?

I'd sooner buy someone's personally converted Saiga than a glued-together claptrap done by some weasel-like company aiming to hit the ultimate in the bottom line.



As to the OP: my thoughts on both makers are well documented here on THR.

 

[Maverick223]

Joe Smith buys a Saiga, and converts it himself. Total cost ~$550

Yes and as long as Joe has some basic metalworking skills it shouldn't be hard. It may take a little while as my Saiga 12 had to be hand fit for every aftermarket part that entered it, but a little work with a file never hurt anyone and helps you to understand the workings of the weapon. I do most of my own smithing and find it not only rewarding but interesting, and I know that I do better work than most of my local gunsmiths. The only work I will not perform is when I don't understand the problem/solution or when specialty tools (lathe, milling machine, etc.) is necessary.

A year later he gets laid off and needs to eat, so he goes to sell the Saiga. Do you think he can sell it for what he's got in it?

Absolutely...as long as the workmanship is up to standards it can fetch just as high of a price as the Arsenal et al.

 

[sernv99]

Buying guns for resale is a felony, w/o a license.

buying guns to sell later on, from your own personal collection is NOT a felony.

I'd sooner buy someone's personally converted Saiga than a glued-together claptrap done by some weasel-like company aiming to hit the ultimate in the bottom line.

that someone's personally coverted Saiga could be all fugged up and glued together for all you know and you don't have any "entity" to sue or get warranty work done on it should it blow up in your face. Taking the cheap route is not always the best way to do things.

 

[nalioth]

Buying guns for resale is a felony, w/o a license.

buying guns to sell later on, from your own personal collection is NOT a felony

Hope you're outside the statute of limitations.

If you buy them to 'sell later on', you are still buying to resell. Still a crime.

I'd sooner buy someone's personally converted Saiga than a glued-together claptrap done by some weasel-like company aiming to hit the ultimate in the bottom line.

that someone's personally coverted Saiga could be all fugged up and glued together for all you know and you don't have any "entity" to sue or get warranty work done on it should it blow up in your face. Taking the cheap route is not always the best way to do things.

Well, you've now insulted everyone who has taken pride in their Saiga conversion. My point was: Most individuals who convert their own take pride in a "job done right', where some of these companies with minimum wage unskilled help are only trying to get X rifles out the door every day and are using the least effort and cheapest parts toward this goal. So yes, "taking the cheap route is not always the best way to do things."

 

[blkbrd666]

Hope you're outside the statute of limitations.

Okay, so exactly what is the statute of limitations, as written, for selling a gun from your private collection? This should be good.

 

[nalioth]

Hope you're outside the statute of limitations.

Okay, so exactly what is the statute of limitations, as written, for selling a gun from your private collection? This should be good.

Again, you're missing my point: If you buy guns with the intent to resell them, and you are not holding an FFL, you are committing a crime.

it doesn't matter if you plan on selling them the next weekend at the gun show or 10 years later after 'all the big bans' have passed and they're worth megabux.

 

[Gun Slinger]

jece,

Gettin' back on topic, seeing that this has degenerated into an pissin' contest over the legality of selling one's own guns, I'd go with the Arsenals.

Of course, I picked up my milled Arsenals (six of 'em ) back when the SAM7A1s could be had for ~$825 and the SASM7s (no bans) could be had for just a little over $950, so I might be a tad biased. Got three of each variant because I just love the heft and look of a milled receiver over the stamped ones; feels more like a main battle rifle to me.

With the milled Arsenals going for somewhat better'n three times (seen 'em going for $2500-$2800) what they used to and the Arsenal stamped receivers (Legion) going for about a Grand, they ain't the deals that they used to be. Either way, with times being what they are, you are gonna hafta pony up some "long green" if you want a really decent AK.

Good luck in the quest!

 

[blkbrd666]

Again, you're missing my point: If you buy guns with the intent to resell them, and you are not holding an FFL, you are committing a crime.

it doesn't matter if you plan on selling them the next weekend at the gun show or 10 years later after 'all the big bans' have passed and they're worth megabux.

Okay, but exactly what is the statute of limitations, as written, for selling a gun from your private collection?

 

[nalioth]

Okay, but exactly what is the statute of limitations, as written, for selling a gun from your private collection?

See my post above about "Joe Smith".

There is no "statute of limitations" or "mininum ownership time" to sell a firearm from your personal collection.

If you buy a new gun today, and later today you find out you've been laid off, you can sell the gun tomorrow for 'food money'.

If you buy a new gun, get home with it, and show it to your rich neighbor, who decides he wants it and will pay you 2x what you just paid - you can sell it to him.

It is the "intent" of it.

 

[Gun Slinger]

Buying guns for resale is a felony, w/o a license.

Not necessarily.

It might be in your state, but it is not a crime in other states (like Ohio) where the sale of one's own firearm in a private two party transaction is neither regulated nor requires any governmental sanction.

I can buy a firearm here, decide anytime that I like that I don't like/want/need it and sell it the very next day, no strings, no worries, bye bye. The only thing I need to verify is if the person purchasing is of age. (usu. via an Ohio DL)

 

[blkbrd666]

Oh okay. I didn't see where the poster was looking to buy anything for resale, but if there was some statute of limitations, as mentioned earlier, I was curious what it was.

 

[nalioth]

Buying guns for resale is a felony, w/o a license.

Not necessarily.

It might be in your state, but it is not a crime in other states (like Ohio) where the sale of one's own firearm in a private two party transaction is neither regulated nor requires any governmental sanction.

I can buy a firearm here, decide anytime that I like that I don't like/want/need it and sell it the very next day, no strings, no worries, bye bye. The only thing I need to verify is if the person purchasing is of age. (usu. via an Ohio DL)

It's a Federal crime that I'm referring to.

What you refer to here, is entirely legal. See my previous posts.

 

[sernv99]

If you buy them to 'sell later on', you are still buying to resell. Still a crime.

then a lot of gun owners are guilty of a crime since a lot of folks buy guns with certain features for a better re-sell value later on. I buy guns with certain features that if I sell them later on, I can get most of my money back out it. I have gone through about 12 different guns in the last 10 months, buying them, using them a little bit (at least 2 were NIB), then reselling them. No law broken there. Good luck trying to prove I bought them solely for the purpose of reselling them.

Well, you've now insulted everyone who has taken pride in their Saiga conversion. My point was: Most individuals who convert their own take pride in a "job done right', where some of these companies with minimum wage unskilled help are only trying to get X rifles out the door every day and are using the least effort and cheapest parts toward this goal. So yes, "taking the cheap route is not always the best way to do things."

again, how do you know the job was "done right" by most individuals doing the conversions on their own? At least with Tromix or Red Jacket, you can send it back. Try that with a private sale of a personally converted Saiga a month after you have completed the sale. I'm sure the seller is going to take back the rifle and fix it for you.

 

[Maverick223]

how do you know the job was "done right" by most individuals doing the conversions on their own? At least with Tromix or Red Jacket, you can send it back. Try that with a private sale of a personally converted Saiga a month after you have completed the sale. I'm sure the seller is going to take back the rifle and fix it for you.

I suppose that I will just have to keep my [personally] converted Saiga...oh, darn.

 

[briansmithwins]

Arsenal makes very nice rifles. I've had 2 a SLR106FR and a SLR107FR. I sold the SLR106FR as the price of magazines and 5.56 ammo was getting out of hand, but I didn't intend to sell it when I bought it, really officer!

Arsenal rifles have an excellent fit and finish, hard chrome bores and gas blocks. The paint that they use over the parkerizing IS removed by paint stripper, brake clean, acetone, and other solvents. It's not effected by CLP or Ballistol, which were actually designed to clean/lube guns.

I'm very happy with the SLR107FR that I still have. I use it (with the factory irons) at our local rifle matches. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when I get shorter times than guys that are using 'more ergonomic' ARs with optics. BSW

 

[rm86]

Perhaps those guys should start a new thread on the legality of selling a gun, they definitely aren't adding anything to the Arsenal or Lancaster discussion. As far as the guns go, I've been waiting on a Lancaster I ordered from their factory for over 3 months now. If they ever decide to ship it to me I'll let you know how it works out

 

[lipadj46]

I would buy an Arsenal or for the same rifle but cheaper buy a Saiga and either do a conversion yourself or pay to have a known Saiga smith do the conversion (and end up with a better gun). Cadiz Gun Works and Tromix are 2 off the top of my head but there are a handful of guys that do better work than either Arsenal or Lancaster.

 

[Maverick223]

IMHO the only reason to get either is the milled receiver, if you don't want that get the Saiga...if you do I think the CZ VZ58, whilst not an AK-47, is a comparable gun that has a better fit and finish for less money.

 

[Kurt_D]

The Arsenal (whether it's a Arsenal Bulgaria or Saiga) are factory built AKs w/ new parts and are way above what Lancaster is putting out.

To answer: why pay $1000 for an Arsenal AK when you can convert a Saiga for $500 (used to could)? Because your converted Saiga looks just like that, a converted Saiga. The Arsenal Saigas and Bulgarians have features that will cost you big money and most likely can't do yourself. Things like: proper gas block, no extra holes, proper feed ramps, proper rear sights, proper front sight base, uses standard AK mags, has the side folding stock (SLR-106 & 107) and support hardware, uses proper handguard retainer, magwell dimples, standard AK furniture, proper trigger guard, hand guard reinforcment (SLR-106 & 107), etc. The parts A LONE to get your RRA Saiga there will put you at or above the price of these rifles, then add the cost and LONG wait time of a AK smith to do a proper conversion. On resale, the Arsenals will command a higher price than your converted Saiga (unless that Saiga was converted by a well know smith and has dimples).

 

[Maverick223]

Because your converted Saiga looks just like that, a converted Saiga.

Looks aren't everything you know...it will still be an AK, and they haven't made a good looking AK IMO.