SKS.... Saiga

[joshuarwright]

My question is this:

Is the Saiga virtually the modern SKS in that it is more accurate then the typical AK-47?

I'm talking comparatively as in, an SKS matched to an old(er) AK-47(probably a WASR) versus a brand new Saiga matched to a brand new Arsenal AK in 7.62x39.

If this is a stupid question of course come out and say it. haha I ask because I am in the market and it's between the latter comparison. My aim, so to speak, is to go for accuracy and were I choosing between the former I would pick the SKS.

help please

-Joshua

 

[joshuarwright]

***forgot to mention***

any and all personal reviews of Arsenal and Saiga rifles (preferably in 7.62x39 though all of course could be helpful) is very much appreciated.

-Joshua

 

[DMK]

I'm not sure that you could broadly say the SKS is any more accurate than the typical AK.

1st of all, what is a typical AK?

2nd of all, the SKS has a longer sight radius than a 16" barreled AK, perhaps making it easier to shoot accurately. Siagas and Veprs have 20" barreled models available. Perhaps allowing a more apples to apples comparison.


.308 and .223 Saigas seem to also have heavier barrels than 7.62x39 AKs (the .223 model having the same OD as the 7.62x39, but a smaller bore). This may help to give them a slight accuracy edge, perhaps.

The AK certainly has more options for mounting optics than an SKS.

Saigas have a very good build quality. This may give them better performance and reliability than your average Century Arms built Romanian or Polish parts kit AK. That said, I've also seen some good AK gunsmiths build very nice and accurate AKs from parts kits. Arsenal AKs are very nice too.

 

[joshuarwright]

hmmm you're pretty correct I suppose DMK, a better post would have just been,

I am considering either the Arsenal AK varients or the Saiga in 7.62x39 and my main concern is accuracy.

thank you for the advice

 

[SSN Vet]

Simonov action vs. Kalashnikov action....

A Saiga sporter is nothing more than an AK in sheeps clothing, to get around sheeple laws.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

You can get a Saiga for like $320 and convert it for another $120 or so. For about $750 you can go with Arsenal AK, which is a Saiga conversion with some fancier bells and whistles (bayonet lug, AK style handguards instead of Saiga ones, etc.) Arsenal takes Saiga rifles and does work on them to make them their SGL-Whatevers. So really, if you just want a good, reliable x39 get a Saiga and do a basic conversion.

 

[joshuarwright]

Everyone talks about converting a Saiga, but is there anything inherently wrong with how it is out of the box... If not this is good because I prefer rifle stocks to pistol grips.

I have never even as much as held a Saiga so this is why I ask for advice.

-Joshua

 

[DMK]

Everyone talks about converting a Saiga, but is there anything inherently wrong with how it is out of the box... If not this is good because I prefer rifle stocks to pistol grips.

Except for odd trigger geometry and less parts compatibility, no there is nothing wrong with a Saiga in Sporter form. It will function just as reliably and effectively as any other AK, maybe even better than some.

 

[Sam1911]

Everyone talks about converting a Saiga, but is there anything inherently wrong with how it is out of the box

This recent thread covers a whole lot of that information.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=499168

There are some compelling reasons to convert a Saiga, at least to a point. But no one's going to punch you in the nose if you don't.

-Sam

 

[JTH]

I think most just prefer the original AK Configuration w/pistol grip etc. Actually SKS's and Saigas with 5-10 round magazines are a more sporting functional configuration for hunting. The extended 20+ rnds magazines make it difficult to find a place to steady the weapons for more accuracy, unless in a prone position or bi-pod. Becomes a hassle if you were deer/hog hunting and you need to get off an accurate quick shot, many have the ability, many don't. Becomes less sporting laying dow a spray of 10-20 rnds, unless you have big rack buck or hog wounded, coming after you, then it would be a good thing. Also about 10-15 P.O.d Javelinas chasing after you, with no tree to climb!

20+ rnd mags were almost meant for a laying down a spray, especially if full auto but the avg Joe doesn't get too play with those too often. Which is probably a good thing for the masses, unles you're stuck w/ someone after you with a full auto weapon.

That's why if you can afford it, have one or ten of each! LOL! I don't know, if you weren't a FFL gun dealer and you had that many AKs, BATF may want to visit with you.
Latest project; retro fitting a MAK 90 with KVAR Plum colored synthetic stock furniture set.

 

[mljdeckard]

I have an SKS I am into for about $400 total, I put the Tapco compliance kit on, with SAW grip, muzzle brake, hi-caps, etc, but the thing that helps the accuracy is the tech-sight that moves the aperture to the rear of the receiver instead of in front of the action. This alone made it much easier to shoot accurately. As it is set up now, I have no reason to get a civilian AK. You would have to decide if this is how you want to do it. (Or if you can find an SKS for $100 these days.)

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Keep in mind there is nothing that prevents you from using smaller magazines in an AK or converted Saiga...You can still pop in a smaller magazine for hunting or shooting from a bench. 10rd mags aren't just for Blue states.

 

[joshuarwright]

all good points, and thank you Sam haha, it's easy to get into a "everyone must be doing it for a reason" mentallity, it's good to know my face is safe if I am not part of everyone.

this isn't at all the place for it but does anyone want a Mossberg 500 Persuader and a Mosin Nagant 91/30? looking to unload quick because I have a chance at a cheap(er) M39 for a limited time. Mossberg is new and Nagant is pretty decent. PM me for info.

maybe I should just post that in the proper section...

 

[d2wing]

I'd use it the way it is, and see how you like it. Not everyone sees making it
look more tactical, or using big magazines is an advantage. It may improve the balance but it's still going to be front heavy. For target shooting and hunting the big mags get in the way and the rifle doesn't as solid converted.
Some folks like a rifle a little front heavy like a trap gun. Some folks prefer a
light shorter gun for faster pointing.

 

[ECVMatt]

Go for the Saiga...

I just got back from the gunstore picking up my new Saiga. There is no comparison between the Saiga and the SKS. My old SKS was huge and clunky. My Saiga is just right. I really like the "traditional" rifle style stock and probably will not covert it. It does not feel front heavy to me. The action is much tighter than my SIA AK 47 parts gun. That one shoots really well too, so I am extra excited about the Saiga. I understand the SKS are good rifles and have a great historical value, but if you want a good shooter, I would get a Saiga. They are such a good deal, I am going to buy another one for my 4 year old and save it for him until he puts on a few more years....I think he will be happy. I can't wait to get out to the desert this weekend and hammer some stuff with it!!!

 

[rangerruck]

good pickup ecv; what cal did you get it in? the 308 does quite well with all the various milsurp out there, especially anything that was former british empire, including american, but not Indian!!!
also quite good with south african, and any old nazi south american stuff.
for the x39 ammo, I find the silver bear hollow points to be amazingly accurate, but all the others work pretty well for accuracy as well.
and if in 223 you have; Surprise!!!! it will shoot just about everything you feed it, into 2 moa or less...

 

[ECVMatt]

I got the x39. I just put it away in the safe and checked the stock again. I really like the factory stock. The rifle fits perfect and comes up fast. I am going to keep it stock for a while and see how it works.

 

[M1key]

Saiga in original sporter configuration. Mo' betta.

 

[joshuarwright]

good good, I was kind of planning to leave it stock(ish) at this point anyway.

that is once I get around to making the purchase.

To further this whole thing, does anyone have any opinions on different scope mounts to replace the rear sight leaf?

 

[rangerruck]

I have tried mojo peepsites; they can be accurate, but it is easier to see the origionals. otherwise i would do the texas dog leg , without a doubt;
It will be what is going on mine, after I have tested out the owner of the companies origional couple of setups;
www.texasweaponsystems.com

 

[ECVMatt]

I just got back from the desert for a quick shoot with the Saiga. It was a blast. I had no problems using the rifle stock config. I only was able to shoot about 60 rounds, but had a blast. I was a bit concerned because it was shooting about three inches low at the magical 22 yards sight in distance. I forgot to bring my sight adj tool, so I thought I would try 100 yards to see what would happen. Someone left a 12" saw blade out there and I hammered it on the first shot. I then hammered several 1 lb. propane bottles at 100 as well. I then tried 200 and 300 yards and the sights were right on. Now I just need a day away from the kids and shoot about 500 rounds through it or so.

 

[Col. Plink]

Sounds like the Saiga's giving good accuracy at 100yds with a 7.62x39; no small feat. I might have recommended an SKS for that round out of accuracy's sake (in that they're good for the money and I don't expect great accuracy in that round). I know the Saiga's are more accurate in .308, but if you're getting the accuracy you need there may be no reason to go there.

I have an older Yugo SKS that shoots well for an SKS, but with open sights was all around a standard 100-yd target for what it's worth.

Ruck, I'll be eager the hear how you like your dog-leg scope mount (and if it can make Saiga 308's even better!).

 

[rangerruck]

...kudo's to you above dude; people don't believe me when I tell them that 223 saigas are a moa proposition, and the 762'x39's , with some silver bear, are 2moa and better, but with more peeps like you chiming in, perhaps we can convince the masses. I love them, and the 308's to me, are between both, a solid moa performer, with you finding a few good ammo's it likes....
Like I said before, try your south american milsurps, and the south african, and then american, and former british empire stuff. the south american stuff can be quite good; mine could do the 3 dot paper punch , with Venezuelan, and argentine. Chilean could be pretty good, if you got some that were not too beat up...

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Same. I hear lots of people trashing Saigas and AKs on accuracy. Yeah they're not tack drivers like a AR-15. But I know all my Saigas shoot more accurately than I do at 100, 200 etc...It's just because people would rather trash a gun than admit that they aren't Annie Oakley.

 

[jakemccoy]

The Saiga 308 is my first rifle. Before I bought it, I was thinking about getting a bolt action .308 for more accuracy, but now I have no plans to get a bolt action .308 anytime soon. The Saiga 308 is much fun and plenty accurate for my newbie ambitions.