Article: After a decade Minnesota CCWs at historic high- did not become the Wild West

[usmarine0352_2005]

Many anti-2nd Amendment proponents predicted that Minnesota would become the wild west and that there would be a bloodbath in the streets. Not so statistics prove after more than a decade of permit to carry in MN.





http://www.startribune.com/as-gun-c...ota-related-crimes-remain-in-check/322600721/

As gun-carrying permits reach historic levels in Minnesota, related crimes remain in check

One in 20 Minnesotans has a permit, and 19% are women.

By David Chanen Star Tribune AUGUST 22, 2015 — 8:57PM

A record 200,000 Minnesotans now have permits to carry handguns, an increasingly diverse group that includes two men who recently made split-second, life-altering decisions to fire their weapons.

In 2003, the year Minnesota passed its permit-to-carry law, 15,000 five-year permits were issued. The number issued annually then decreased for several years. But by 2014, 184,985 Minnesotans held permits. Today, one in 20 Minnesotans has a permit, 19 percent of them women.

Opponents had feared that the law would lead to a surge in shootings and gun deaths. But Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension data show that fatalities involving permit holders are rare. In the past five years, there have been five deadly or nonlethal instances of justifiable use of a firearm by permit holders. From 2013 to 2014, gun crimes reported to the BCA involving permit owners dropped in half. While the numbers may not tell the full story — law enforcement can’t track all gun owners who flash weapons only if needed for self-defense — gun rights advocates say they’re telling.

 

[medalguy]

The same thing was predicted when Texas allowed concealed carry........and every other state where concealed carry has been approved. And every state where open carry has been affirmed. Kinda makes you wonder how all those anti-gun outlets are able to keep spewing this misinformation, and how uninformed folks keep falling for that line. Can't cure stupid I guess.

 

[Old Fuff]

For that matter, none of the states that have relaxed - or even totally eliminated - their CCW laws have seen any meaningful uptick in firearm misuse among those that legally carry concealed weapons.

Blood running in the streets, and returning to the wild west are both myths.

 

[wally]

The same thing was predicted when Texas allowed concealed carry......

Houston / Harris County District Attorney Johnny Holmes talked long and hard against the CHL law when it was first being passed.

At least he was man enough to publicly admit he was wrong about it a few year later after he'd retired.

 

[Smokey Joe]

"Blood in the streets"...

is part of the antis' belief system; an article of faith. You will not change it with logic, nor with facts. You may "prove" that it is a fallacious idea, but that will have no effect on the mindset of one who simply "does not like guns."

And like most liberals, they want to ban things they don't like.

 

[Nom de Forum]

This is why increasing legal CCW is the most important thing to use our resources for in supporting the RKBA. More people with guns and no increase in bloodshed is the single best thing to discredit all the arguments gun grabbers make to reduce/eliminate gun ownership.

 

[HammsBeer]

In 12 years we've got 200K permit holders in Minnesota, but Wisconsin next door passed carry permit laws in 2011 and already have 250K in just 4 years. What the heck?

 

[Ignition Override]

This total contradiction between Anti-Second Amendment organizations'/politicians' forecasts and reality is the clearest, most stark contrast which could have been anticipated.

Thank you.

 

[SwaneeSR]

As someone who lives in the Twin Cities I am surprised to see this article in the Star Tribune. They typically have a strong anti-gun bias.

I have my CCW for MN and Utah and carry both in MN and WI. Now it is time to convince my wife and two adult sons to get theirs. Sons are in, we need to get the MRS to attend.

 

[wideym]

I remember when Florida was the "Gunshine State" and people would be shooting each other in the streets over parking spaces after their passing their concealed carry laws. Somehow that never happened, but that same old song and dance routine is trotted out every time another state enacts or updates their concealed carry laws.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

David Chanen, "As gun-carrying permits reach historic levels in Minnesota, related crimes remain in check", Star Tribune, 22 Aug 2015.

It seems to me that, when there have been retrospects on shall-issue right-to-carry R-T-C, city police chiefs, county sheriffs, and district attorneys who publically opposed R-T-C have no problem admitting they were wrong. Politicians, gun control advocates and op-ed opinionators continue to harp on "Wild West at the OK Corral", "blood in the gutters", and "CCW Killers". They will never admit they were wrong. And our news media (who see themselves as advocacy journalists promoting social reform) will continue to give the majority of print space and airtime to Wild West/bloody streets rhetoric and attack R-T-C.

I keep a file on "Ten Years After ... Boy Was I Wrong" (inspired by Harris County TX prosecutor John Holmes' letter to Jerry Paterson author of the R-T-C bill) .

I update it every now and then. In 2013 District Attorney Joshua Marquis in Oregon admitted concerning Oregon's shall-issue right-to-carry handgun license: "In 1991, I was the chief deputy district attorney in Deschutes County in Bend, and I authored an opinion piece run by The Oregonian, in which I was highly critical of a deal made by the former House speaker, known as the "Katz compromise." ... I thought it would be a disaster. I was wrong. Based on my experience, crimes by CHL holders are very rare and are certainly less than in the general population. Guns are still a very emotional issue for many, but CHL holders have not been a public safety problem."

You will never hear an admission, "I was wrong about shall-issue right-to-carry", from the professional gun control advocates because rabble rousing about "Wild West at the OK Corral", "blood in the gutters", and "CCW Killers" is their livelihood. Without anti-gun fear mongering, they would have to find honest jobs.

 

[JR24]

Now if only MN would recognize our WI CCW permits. The few times I have to travel over there it aggravates the heck outta me to have to disarm at the border.

 

[TimSr]

I remember, I think in the 80's when all eyes in the nation were on Florida for testing this new idea if concealed carry. Funny though was even back then, nobody ever mentioned Vermont, which always had concealed carry, ironically located in the middle of gun control central.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

SwaneeSR Post #9: "As someone who lives in the Twin Cities I am surprised to see this article in the Star Tribune. They typically have a strong anti-gun bias."

The article does quote the Violence Policy Center "research" on "CCW Killers" and opinions of Heather Martens, executive director of Protect Minnesota, a gun [strike]safety[/strike] control and [strike]education[/strike] propaganda group.

It does give equal time to John Lott, president of the Crime Prevention Research Center, and more time to Andrew Rothman, Minnesota firearms trainer: "95 percent of permit owners who pull their guns for defensive reasons never fire a shot." (Like Texas, Minnesota seems to track crime stats on CCW holders, and like Texas finds CCW holders remarkably restrained in gun use.)

Given that I have tracked this issue for over fifty years, the balance in this article is more than surprising.

In the 1960s all reportage (outside the gun press like Guns&Ammo or American Rifleman) was pro-gun control, demonized the NRA and was silent on gun rights (and universally praised Carl Bakal's book "NO Right to Bear Arms").

 

[Old Fuff]

These days a lot of print media is in trouble because of advertising shifting to the Internet and other outlets. Some editors/publishers in states with substantial rural or middle/small town populations where gun control isn't particularly popular may have noticed a connection between their editorial position on gun issues and a decline in both subscriptions and adds. This might be causing a shift to a more balanced view on the subject.

 

[Liberty1776]

I am really surprised the Star and Sickle published this. They were decrying the upcoming blood bath ten years ago...

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

The same dire results were predicted in Oklahoma and later in Kansas, yet it was not to be.
And heck, we are the "wild west"...

 

[GBExpat]

Let us not forget all of the blood & bodies in the streets all over the US following the sunset of the AWB in 2004.

 

[Ignition Override]

Liberty 1776:
Until the merger in about '11, we did all of our annual or semi-annual recurrent training in Mendota Heights MN.

Of all the newspapers' front pages I've read from larger US cities, No Other newspaper had the consistenly abrasive style of what we called "The Hammer And Sickle" Star Truibune.

Maybe this is just a small march towards a rational approach...but unless the overall tone has changed, they have so far to go. don't hold your breath.

Is it possible that one of the editors knows somebody who avoided being a victim only by displaying a firearm(?).

 

[Da Yooper]

The same thing was predicted when Texas allowed concealed carry........and every other state where concealed carry has been approved. And every state where open carry has been affirmed. Kinda makes you wonder how all those anti-gun outlets are able to keep spewing this misinformation, and how uninformed folks keep falling for that line. Can't cure stupid I guess.

Keep in mind

we now live in a country that has a rigged & manipulated media that does not have the best interests of the free tax paying citizens at heart. THEY HAVE A SOCIALIST AGENDA & they want to control every aspect of our lives from birth to death. You can not trust the media you can not trust who you vote for, for any office . We are on our own until someone stands out & represents US & sends the corrupt media & elected officials packing.

keep in mind folks the US media is controlled by 6 company's who dont have our best interest at heart at all.

 

[entropy]

In 12 years we've got 200K permit holders in Minnesota, but Wisconsin next door passed carry permit laws in 2011 and already have 250K in just 4 years. What the heck?

Because sometimes we have to go over to Minnesota for something. I always carry when I cross the St. Croix.