Article on Luxury Gun Ranges

[Jason_W]

I want to be clear that I have no problem with the existence of elite clubs, gun or otherwise. Nor do I have a problem with the accumulation of wealth itself.

I just think it's a bit naive to think that the people who are powerful enough to purchase legislation and buy their way to a status that is effectively above the law care one iota about legislation that effects the common man.

One of the primary reasons that I oppose so called common sense gun laws is that they are inherently classist. When anti-gun people say they want to make guns harder to acquire, they really mean more expensive. If your personal wealth is more than the GDP of some small nations, gun ownership being more expensive is meaningless. There's is thus no incentive to care about gun legislation.

 

[45_auto]

I just think it's a bit naive to think that the people who are powerful enough to purchase legislation and buy there way to a status that is effectively above the law care one iota about legislation that effects the common man.

I think it's naive to believe that wealth has anything to do with how much a particular individual cares about the "common man".

Seems to me that your "people powerful enough to purchase legislation" have been doing a pretty pee-poor job of purchasing anti-gun legislation. Maybe they need to make more money and send me some of it?

The attached .gif shows the passage of "shall issue" carry laws over the past 28 years.

 

[Jason_W]

I think I'll bow out now as this thread heading away from firearms and toward being locked anyway.

I still stand firmly by all of my assertions.

 

[LockedBreech]

I think it's naive to believe that wealth has anything to do with how much a particular individual cares about the "common man".

Amen to this. I work or have worked in civil claims law, criminal law, business/contracts law, and divorce law. Every day I encounter people across the wealth spectrum who are unimaginably selfish or inspiringly generous/selfless, with no particular trend. I believe it's how a person was raised and has lived their life and developed their conscience.

Wealth envy is a fascinating, perplexing thing having worked with both extremely poor and extremely rich people. Rich people are just people. Just as flawed and bad, just as amazing and good as anyone else.

Since money does turn political gears, I very much enjoy the story in the original post. Wealthy people tend to be successful and influential in their communities, and that bodes well for guns if they turn into big shooters (and don't Fudd out on us). Frankly, I agree that many ranges are dirty and low-class. If I lived nearby the club I might join it.

 

[Jason_W]

Amen to this. I work or have worked in civil claims law, criminal law, business/contracts law, and divorce law. Every day I encounter people across the wealth spectrum who are unimaginably selfish or inspiringly generous/selfless, with no particular trend. I believe it's how a person was raised and has lived their life and developed their conscience.

Wealth envy is a fascinating, perplexing thing having worked with both extremely poor and extremely rich people. Rich people are just people. Just as flawed and bad, just as amazing and good as anyone else.

Since money does turn political gears, I very much enjoy the story in the original post. Wealthy people tend to be successful and influential in their communities, and that bodes well for guns if they turn into big shooters (and don't Fudd out on us). Frankly, I agree that many ranges are dirty and low-class. If I lived nearby the club I might join it.

Disdain isn't always tantamount to envy.

Yes, there are selfish, entitled people across the wealth spectrum, but generally, when poor people get rip roaring drunk, and then run 4 people down with a truck, they go to prison, not cushy rehab ala Ethan Couch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch

If I were to knowingly launder money for drug cartels and terrorist organizations, I would go to jail. However, when HSBC executives facilitated it, no one went to jail and the company was fined with what amounts to a slap on the wrist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC#Money_laundering

I also resent the belief (whether implicit or explicit) that in order to be a true firearms enthusiast you have to 100% toe the ultra conservative party line, which apparently includes getting down on bended knee before the wealthy and revere them as though they are medieval royalty. You can't criticize wealth, and the way America treats it!! That's practically treason!!

 

[LockedBreech]

Anyone can point out outliers, but anecdote is not the singular of data. The hundreds (yes, literal hundreds) of cases I have had personal involvement in, many of them involving well-off people who got severe sentences and indigent people who got off with a wrist-slap are real, they just don't make attractive news stories for Internet outrage.

Trying to figure out where in my post I mentioned a darn thing about politics. I'm a moderate. Any implicit message about politics in my post was implied solely by you.

Weren't you bowing out, literally in your last post? I think I'll beat you to it.

 

[Jason_W]

Weren't you bowing out, literally in your last post? I think I'll beat you to it.

Couldn't resist. Some topics just get me uncharacteristically fired up

 

[oneounceload]

My point is that the wealthy have no need to worry about gun laws because the wealthy are above the law anyway. That's been proven time and time again in this nation alone.

HUH? Must be a product of the public school systems

The article closes with a good expression of their elitism:

“It’s ultimately for thrills,” said Mr. Lopez, who said the management banned discussion of gun policy from the club. “It’s such a politically charged topic. We don’t want to get involved. We just want people to come in and have a good time.”

Elitism because the owners don't want a politically divisive subject brought up while they're having fun? Would it be elitism if it happened in a bowling league or local bar instead?

I just think it's a bit naive to think that the people who are powerful enough to purchase legislation and buy their way to a status that is effectively above the law care one iota about legislation that effects the common man.

Your jealousy of of folks who have more than you is simply amazing

Maybe you should check out all of the private golf clubs- some of which charge $100K or more to be a member of

You want to play in their sandbox, make more money and join

Here's a nice club in Germany - it's in German, but you can get the idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyq90LEZe4k

 

[Jason_W]

Again, disdain and criticism are not equal to jealousy. My quarrel is not with the stuff the wealthy have, it's with the outright deification of the wealthy.

Additionally, claims of "wealth envy" as a counterpoint to any criticism of the upper classes are both arrogant and self congratulatory.

 

[oneounceload]

You seem to be the only one deifying them; and your criticism is based solely on your wealth envy, so neither arrogant or self congratulatory as I am not at their pay grade either (although I do shoot with several who can and do fit that category).

I shoot with folks who spend more on a gun than I have made in a year, so what? If they belong to an exclusive club, good for them, and maybe one day I'll get an invite. If not, no big deal. Most of these guys are very down-to-earth and self-effacing and do not brag or drive Bentleys, not even Mercedes - more like Toyota or Lexus - they don't have to brag about anything, they have what they have and they know what they have - good for them

 

[45_auto]

Additionally, claims of "wealth envy" as a counterpoint to any criticism of the upper classes are both arrogant and self congratulatory.

What do you consider to be the "upper classes"? Have you ever read the US Constitution?

Article I, Section 9, Clause 8:

No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States.

Is your image of the "upper class" a specific income level, education level, or job description?

My quarrel is not with the stuff the wealthy have, it's with the outright deification of the wealthy.

There's only one poster on this thread that I'm seen that believes that the wealthy are above the law. Just because you deify the wealthy doesn't make it so for everyone.

 

[Jason_W]

There's only one poster on this thread that I'm seen that believes that the wealthy are above the law.

Just because I'm the only poster who believes this doesn't make it any less true. I've already posted links to two cases that support this and I'm confident that I could find many more.

The fact of the matter is that if you have enough money in America, you can buy your way out of accountability and consequences. Have we really forgotten already? 2008 wasn't that long ago.

How does this relate to gun laws? Well, if through some legal loophole guns were banned tomorrow, the members of that cushy club linked in the OP would still be able to keep their guns while you and I would not. That's how our world works.

 

[Sam1911]

Wow... Folks, when that little voice in your head says, "I should bow out," you REALLY need to listen to it!

This is so far off the rails I'm not going to try and clean it up. Just CLOSED.