asking advice de-cap/ re-size & then tumble or just tumble

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Hello all
New AF to reloading. I finally have my my first press, Lee 4 hole turret, dies, powder charge, digital scale & micrometer, Frankford Arsenal vibratory brass tumbler and believe or not powder, primers and bullets. Just mounted up the RCBS universal case prep station.
Starting with .308 , 300 blk, and .223
Done a lot of homework, reading, internet videos and this forum.
However, getting mixed info on whether to decap / resize then tumbler brass or just tumble then take to press.
It seems a waste of the 4 hole auto index to decap / resize, tumble then back to press, plus issue of running dirty brass through resizing die. Also kind of sucks resizing again just to keep synched up in reload cycle.
Conversely, tumbling with spent primers intact seems counter-intuitive.
And then where in the cycle do you deal with trim & case prep?.
Just wanted to see what yáll do . Thanks for any input.
 
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I clean brass before running it in any size die, I might do a 2nd cleaning to remove lube. I don’t trim until after sizing because it’s the sizing process that can cause the case to lengthen. That said, when everything is right, I can fire bottle neck cases and size them again without growth. As the growth is from a case being smaller than the chamber it’s in, then blow out to fit the chamber and sized again too small for the chamber. Easier to avoid on bolt guns than semi or full autos.

I suggest doing it both ways and see if you can discern any difference, if you can’t, no need to waste the time anymore. If you just like doing more work, that’s fine too.

I do it both ways myself, for different reasons but my most accurate and smallest groups have been fired using brass that hasn’t been in any tumbler since it was manufactured. However, the goal for them is one small hole, not “pretty”.
 
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OP, for tumbling in dry media (vibratory tumbler) you don't need to decap/deprime first. The people that "NEED" to decap/deprime first are those that are wet tumbling.
Since you are talking rifle, here is what I do.
First tumble.
Sort by head stamp (many don't) but I want to also segregate crimped vs non-crimped primers.
Lube, then size/deprime.
Measure, trim if needed, chamfer/deburr, handle crimped primer pockets (many 5.56/223 and 308, and even factory 300 blackout need it).
Tumble again to knock off lube and brass bits from trimming/deburring/etc.
Then load -- primer, powder bullet.
For rifle you have to do case prep, some of it before and some after sizing. I.e. you measure after sizing to ensure you are within specs.
Most of my 308, 223, 300 Blackout brass is range pickups and most will be shot from semi-autos, so I have to full size and case prep as I do.
 
So there are a lot of different ways to do things and it really depends what you're starting brass looks like. If you are dealing with your brass taken from the chamber and put back in the reloading box then you can size and de prime and then tumble getting all the lube off. If you're dealing with range pickups that are dirty and covered in god-knows-what de priming on a universal and getting halfway clean to begin with would be the way I would go
 
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I dry tumble, lube, decap and resize, spray the cases with a little 91% isopropyl and rub'em around in a towel to remove the lub, then continue processing. Not sure that's the best way, but I do it that way because I don't care enough about perfectly clean brass to wet tumble or ultrasonic clean, and I'm not worried about the primer pockets being perfect because I'm not shooting for groups at over a 1000 yards (don't even know how far I'd have to travel to find a range that long). I do scrape the primer pockets of bottleneck cartridges when I prep, but not pistol.
 
If the brass is dirty, then I wash or tumble as appropriate; carbon doesn't count as dirty.

Otherwise: Lube, Size, soap/water/rinse, and tumble to dry.
 
Best to decap with a universal decapping die then tumble

This!!!!

I have a cheap lee press with a universal lee decapping die. That's it's sole purpose in life! Dirty in that die does not matter! Clean de-primed brass and size and load! I do not use the resizing/decapping combo dies to deprime dirty brass
 
I reload on a single stage so it is a little different for me. I always tumble in walnut media before resizing and de-priming then tumble again to get the case lube off of the cases.

If I were reloading on a progressive I would probably de-prime with a universal de-priming die and then wet tumble before I ran them through the reloading cycles.
 
Since your question centers around deprime and size, and you have a vibratory cleaner, I offer comment only on that, with no side trips in the process.

I too, have a vibratory cleaner and clean brass with the primer in. Corn cob/walnut, aprox 1 Tbsp NuFinish, 1 Tbsp mineral spirits/turp, (alcohol evaporates) 2 used dryer sheets cut onto 1/4ths (absorbs the dust); clean for 1-2 hrs. Throw away dryer sheets.

I always have an old Tee short on my lap to wipe cases before going into my dies. Deprime; the pin will clear any stuck media that might be inside the hole. Small screwdriver quick twist clears primer pocket of anything that would keep a primer from seating.

If you are using mil brass, that would require removing the crimp before seating a new primer.
 
I pick up lots of range brass so I remove the primers with my Lee Universal Decapping Die.
Then wet tumble.
Followed by resizing.
The trim bottle neck cases.
Straight walled cases, never trim.

Prime, powder, seat bullet, crimp.
 
If you get a case feeder, it's not so painful to run the brass through the press more than once.

For me, it would be unthinkable to push a new primer into a dirty pocket. All my guns and ammo are surgically clean. I'm being hyperbolic, but yeah, they're sparkly. My wife even makes fun of it because all my junk glitters. She comes into the garage and the lamps are reflecting off the brass and lighting up my eyes like a pirate brooding over a pile of glittering gold and she just laughs.

Jerry Miculek, who has reloaded and shot more than I ever will in my lifetime, has been reloading since the 1970's and says he never cleans primer pockets. He tumbles with the spent primers in. Back in the day, he dry tumbled, but switched to wet tumbling at some point. In one older video, he shows a used cement mixer for tumbling 5.56 brass. In a more recent video he really gave me the impression that he uses a Frankford Arsenal tumbler, even though he had the Hornady case cleaners displayed in front of it evidently because of his Hornady sponsorship. Obviously, guys like Miculek or Kinman (Hicock45) get large quantities of ammo from their sponsors. Their sponsors almost certainly don't provide their every desire for ammo. I imagine Miculek goes through large quantities of ammo for the few cartridges he uses for 3-gun, but he probably reloads for at least another dozen or two dozen cartridges that he probably only shoots in earthly quantities (no cement mixer needed). He also described switching from stainless steel pins to Southern Shine chips because the pins would get stuck in the spent primers and break his decapping pin. He says he's never cleaned a primer pocket since the 70's and doesn't see a reason to start. He can do what he likes.

I usually wash my spent cases first. I tumble them for 10 minutes in dish soap and stainless media in a STM Rebel 17 tumbler, separate them with a Frankford Arsenal media separator (the simple sieve that fits over a 5 gallon bucket), rinse them in hot water and shake and towel dry.
I lay them out or load them into loading blocks and spray them with Hornady One Shot case lube and let it dry for at least a minute. If they're rifle, I put Redding Imperial Wax on the necks with my fingers instead.
I load them in the case feeder.
Station 1 universal decaps them.
Station 2 resizes them, body for handgun, neck bushing for rifle
Station 3 resizes the neck (handgun only)
Station 4 expands the mouth (handgun only)

After this, they're loaded into the wet tumbler again with dish soap, stainless media and Lemishine.
I tumble for 30 minutes.

They come out with the primer pockets and inside the cases shiny.
I separate the media, rinse in hot water, and towel dry them. I blow them with an air compressor and let them air dry for at least a few hours.
Then I load them in the dry tumbler with corncob media that has a little bit of automotive protectant product in it (Meguiars Ultimate Wax which is actually not wax but a polymer type paint protectant and I choose it because its what I use on my cars)
They tumble for 30 minutes.
I separate the cases from the corncob (same Frankford sieve again)

Now they're ready to store in ziplock bags.

This is the point at which I would consider trimming cases or chamfer/deburr mouths. I will check cases after several loadings but I have never found brass that was even close to being too long. At most, I've only ever trimmed a half-dozen cases out of 500 because they were more than 2 thou longer than the other 494. I don't shoot anything high-pressure (the highest I go is 52,000 psi), so maybe my brass just doesn't stretch that much.
 
It seems a waste of the 4 hole auto index to decap / resize, tumble then back to press, plus issue of running dirty brass through resizing die. Also kind of sucks resizing again just to keep synched up in reload cycle.
Conversely, tumbling with spent primers intact seems counter-intuitive.
And then where in the cycle do you deal with trim & case prep?.
Welcome to THR! There’s a lot of great advice and plenty of years of experience on this forum.
If the brass has dirt/sand/grit that can damage dies and the brass, then use a decap die which only removes the spent primer. Then you can tumble to clean the brass. The vibratory tumblers won’t clean the primer pockets so you’ll need to do that on your prep station if you’re so inclined. Measure your cases to see if you need to trim, either to get them back into spec or to get them all the same length - either way you should size first, and trim second.
My hunting rounds are usually clean enough that I don’t decap/tumble, I just resize using Imperial wax, wipe that with a rag and then a quick inspection of the primer pocket to see if it needs cleaning, then trimmed. You’ll find batch processing helps speed up the whole process. Good luck!
 
I'm pretty new to reloading myself and use a single stage press. The only rifle brass I do is .223 and I've never had any problems with my reloads in my M&P Sport II. I don't pretend to know everything but here's the brass prep that's worked for me:

Tumble in walnut media with nothing added. Timer set for about 2 1/2 hours. I pick up a fair amount of range brass and some of it's pretty dirty.

Size/decap in one operation using Lee water based lube.

Anneal by running through my home built machine. I do them every reloading as it doesn't take long and it's easier than trying to keep track of how many reloads ago it was last done on any particular case.

Swage, since it's quicker to run them all through than to try and separate my brass from the range pickups that may still have crimped pockets.

Trim using the World's Finest Trimmer. They all get this as well even though many will not need trimmed, rather than measure each one first.

Tumble again in plain walnut media. Maybe 1/2 hour or so to remove lube.

Prime on the press.
 
For pistol ammo I simple tumble and then reload. I put liquid Turtle Wax (the car stuff) in my media and this reduced the dust and lubricate the cases just enough for my carbide sizing dies. It also leaved just enough protection to keep the brass from tarnishing when stored.

If the cases are really dirty then I have an old batch of corn cob media I will run them through before my current good batch of media.

Same for rifle brass except I use One Shot to lubricated it for sizing.
 
If your using a dry cleaning process no need to deprimer before hand. Just run a cleaning cycle then start the sizing/depriming (lube first), check to see if brass needs trimming, trim if needed. Check for crimp primer pockets, swage or trim, your choice if needed. Then load powder and bullets of your choice. Always follow recommended loading practices. Reference several manuals to determine, your starting load and work up to your best accuracy with the components you used.
 
I know I am not doing it right but I have a Lee Classic and a Lee Turret. Depending upon exactly what I am doing I set one press up for decapping, then clean and resize and trim and then lube as needed the cases. I use the Classic for that, then I go to the Lee Turret and do the remaining operations to produce a round.

I do not load 5.56, 9mm, 40S&W, .45 Auto or other high volume (pistol) rounds. Too much time, does not save any money and uses up my supplies.
 
I de-cap with a universal decapping die then clean in my vibratory tumbler. Yes it adds extra steps but it also gives me an extra time to inspect the brass before loading them. I leave my old Lee single stage set up with my RCBS universal decapping die. No real right or wrong answer here. Do what works for you.
 
I prefer to clean and polish my cases after sizing and decapping whether they are processed on a single stage or progressive (I also prime off the press).

I clean the cases that are real dirty from laying on the ground, I’ll do a quick clean before sizing. This is to get debris off the case that may scratch the die surface.
 
Handgun rounds I don't clean them at all. Using dry media at the moment to clean, so I just leave them in then decap as part of the resizing process as I load (I do make sure the case doesn't have any left-over media, of course). Have had zero issues after 1000s of rounds, so don't see any reason to change. IMO whatever's left over from one primer will likely be blown out by the next, so you'll only have one layer of grime at any one time (I just made that up, I have no idea if it's true or not lol).

Just getting into rifle so maybe my process will change, but not sure. I'd like to switch to wet tumbling, & when I do, I'll probably go ahead & deprime first.
 
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