Asking for the right form of I.D. when an LEO knocks on your door.

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Kinda funny in a way. The "powers that be" want to cut down on the forging of official documents to help prevent crimes of impersonation, but by the very act of limiting access to these documents, there's no way people could realistically tell what's real and what isn't. A badge is fine -- it's worn openly on the shirt, jacket, etc. of the wearer and as has been pointed out upthread, they are still hard to get ahold of.

By the way, Checkman, if you work around the Boise area, how's about dropping by and showing me your ID card? Purely for informational purposes, I assure you. :neener:
 
Uh oh, Checkman, I swear, I was never even NEAR aisle six! Lotsa guys have the same haircut as I do! Well, they don't look as GOOD as I do, but anyway...

But I didn't DO it, I tells ya!
 
A guy once told me he had a knock on the door one night from a person claiming to be a LEO. This 'cop' had his finger over the peep hole! The homeowner ordered him to take his finger off the hole so he could see out. The person on the outside just said, "open the door!" The homeower yelled back thru indicating he was holding a 12 guage. Turns out it was a cop, and he was investigating a disturbance. Pretty unprofessional of him to cover the peep hole!
 
Pretty unprofessional of him to cover the peep hole!
Chicago cops used to do that as well back in the late 70s when I lived there.

They also used to claim to be from a utility company sometimes.
 
I wouldn't let them in without a warrant even if i could verify they were legit.
I don't show up on their doorstep expecting to get let in.
 
Just do me a favor, just one small favor, it's all I'm asking. If you call for the police, and we show up, don't go through the whole ID us routine. You called me. I didn't decide to drop by and chat, so can I please see what the heck I can do to help you rather then cool my heels on your front porch?

Sure no problem...but to be fair, if you pull me over, please don't go through the whole ID me routine. You pulled me over. I didn't ask to be pulled over so let's cut straight to the chase rather than waste our gas idling? :neener:
 
The best thing that I am implementing in my home is a Video Intercom System/Telephone. They aren't that expensive and a great tool. Especially for the wife.

YOu don't have to open the door and you can see who it is first and ask them to tell you their name and call the Local LEO to see if they are legit. In this day and age I hardly OPEN the Door without getting a name. Even if its for Girl Scout Cookies.
 
While it is your right to ask for an ID card, I would bet some LEOs would get pretty angry if you asked to see it... or better yet, if you said "ok, wait here on the front steps while I call this in and run the numbers on you" and let him stand there for 5-10 minutes the same way an LEO does when he pulls you over.

Think about it- the whole psychological/symbolism of asking questions and/or demanding ID is power. When an LEO asks a question and someone answers it- it is symbolic of submission to authority. This is why LEOs ask a lot of questions and watch to see how you respond.

Turning this all around- asking them for ID, telling them to keep their hands in plain view (out of their pockets), and telling them to stand and wait while you verify their ID card by phone... you could potentially get an LEO who explodes into fury and/or tries to cuff you on the spot. :mad:

I've had LEOs get angry at the mere request for a badge number, let alone to see their ID card. Good luck. :rolleyes:
 
That is not why LEOs ask a lot of questions.

Following on that, they probably weren't irritated with you for because of your request.

But that's just a hunch.
 
Do we have a beating-dead-horse smiley?

I am an LEO, and while I have never covered a peephole, I do tend to stay back from the door, to avoid a possible hail of bullets coming through the door. One of my co-workers, in an adjoining district just a couple of miles away, was hit by gunfire coming though a front door, even though he was still out at the street; a panicky homeowner, who had called about a prowler, decided to hose the area with bullets when she heard sounds from outside. A cautious LEO might well feel it is unsafe for him to stand in plain view with empty hands. We are starting to really beat a dead horse here; when in doubt, call the dispatcher, and if dispatch advises he/she has no officers at your door, then ask them to send someone to see who is at the door. We take impersonators VERY seriously.
 
Good response Rexster.

Well said Rexster. What I find so amusing about these threads are how critical some folks are of LEO's who use some street survival tactics, but then will often join in on other threads about tactics. Apparently only private citizens are entitled to want to stay alive to fight another day. I guess if you're a cop then it's too bad.
 
A good cop friend of mine recommended this: Don't ask for their badge, ask for their Identification card.
I would not even bother to answer the door.

If they're coming for me, and have a warrant, I'll know soon enough.
And if they just want to ask me some questions about an investigation then they should call in advance and schedule a meeting.

I don't do "drop in's" or "uninvited guest".
 
When I answer the door I'm always holding back an aggressive German Shepherd dog by the collar with my right hand. If I let him go he will immediately lunge and attack the person at the door. If a cop tries to shove his way in without a warrant the dog gets released while I run for my gun. If the cop shows a warrant he gets in while I continue to hold the dog. If he says he only wants to talk I'll squeeze through the door with the dog left inside and chat on the porch. Most cops may be good guys, but there are enough that are pure evil that I won't let any inside without showing a warrant.
 
Cop at the door

Not knowing all the different laws of every state,all I can tell you about are Massachusetts laws.In Mass. if the Police are called to a residence regarding a breach of the peace,disturbances,loud music etc. and a complainant has come forward and wants the cops to take care of the problem ,a warrant is not needed.If the offender refuses to stop the disturbance or open the door,the cops can lawfully kick the door in and make arrests.
Also if the Police fear someone is in danger inside the home or apt. the door may be kicked in.Before anyone decides to grab a gun and wave it around cops,you may want to rethink it.In my years as a cop,every time someone refused to quiet down and open the door,they were usually found to be drunk.I guess what I am trying to say is,people on both sides of the door have to be smart and know just what may occur if things get out of hand.
I am sure many other states have the same laws as Massachusetts,because Mass. usually holds their Police to higher standards as far as individual rights regarding probable cause and search and seizure.
 
Since I know a little about our local PD, I would ask who what station # they are, who the Captain and Lieutenant out of their area.
 
If the offender refuses to stop the disturbance or open the door,the cops can lawfully kick the door in and make arrests.
It seems reasonable that if someone refuses to stop committing a crime that police use force to stop the crime.
 
When conducting investigations it is common to interview neighbors in the area of the crime. If no one answers, we normally move on. If you are doubtful about the identity of someone claiming to be a LEO at your door... Call the barracks/station and ask. The desk personnel will know where the officers are, and WHO they are. GROG
 
Please do keep in mind that an officer does not need to have a warrant in hand to execute the warrant. The days of officers going to the courthouse or sheriff's office and pulling the hard copy of a warrant from a file are long gone. I an not saying this is good or bad; just saying how it is.
 
HankB said:
Now, if I see someone walking behind a uniformed officer in the manner you described, I guaran-darn-tee you that it will be the LAST time that person tries to play head games with an on-duty officer.
This wasn't on a public street, it was on MY property which he entered without invitation . . . as far as I'm concerned, I can walk around MY property any way I darn well please.

Yeah, I really wouldn't expect to get body-checked or have someone "guaran-darn-tee you that it will be the LAST time*" if it was my own property we're talking about. If folks are walking about on my property, I am interested in knowing why.

I don't think I would be that appreciative of such treatment, though an attempted flying tackle by some stranger from across the street might be worth filming and dumping on to youtube.

Heck, even not on my property. I know of no "non-LEO Exclusion corridor" that follows LEO's back side.

OTOH, I have the good sense not to intentionally startle folks, obviously armed or not.

-------

Regarding the OP, I have had the city police show up a couple times. Has never been a big deal, what with the navy uniforms and obvious police autos parked out in front. It is usually something like a neighbor's dog barking or whatnot.

The most interesting was a response by two local policemen to an "ongoing 911 call" from our house. Turns out, my 18 month old daughter was playing with the cordless phone and got the 911 combo and proceeded to have a conversation with the dispatcher in toddler-speak.

They wanted inside the house, but I managed to satisfy their curiosity without that, by bringing the phone out for them to examine and introducing my then-2.5YO son to them and teaching him the word, "police car."



* Whatever that means
 
Wouldn't this bite?

http://www.denvergov.com/MediaRelations/tabid/426762/newsid470633/739/Police-Impersonator/Default.aspx
Police Impersonator

On January 28, 2008 at approximately 1:30p.m. in the 3500 block of Colorado Boulevard the suspect pulled over a female driver. He claimed he was pulling her over for speeding. He took her license and registration and went back to his vehicle. He returned to the victim’s car a short time later and instructed her to get out of her vehicle. She complied and he placed her in handcuffs and put her in the back of his vehicle. He got into the victim’s car and appeared to search it. He came back to the victim and instructed her to get out of his vehicle. He then removed the handcuffs from her and returned her license and registration. The suspect got back in his vehicle drove eastbound on 35th Avenue. When the victim got in her car she realized her money and some other items had been stolen.

The suspect was described as a white male, about 6-feet tall, 185-pounds, appeared to be between 22 and 29 year old, brown, short hair, brown eyes, clean shaven, wearing a dark blue shirt that read “police” on the front left chest. He had a radio on his waist. He was driving a white 4-door car, unknown model, with a red light on the roof of the driver’s side.

On January 18, 2008, the suspect pulled over two men driving in the 500 block of Santa Fe Street. The suspect told the victim’s to step out of their vehicle and then he searched them. He took both of their wallets. He had walked them back to his car and the victim’s saw what appeared to be a computer in the vehicle, but did not see or hear a police radio. The person never told them what he stopped them for. The suspect told the victim’s to get back in the vehicle and then the suspect drove off.
The suspect described as a white male, about 6-feet tall, approximately 200-pounds, blond hair, blue eyes, with a mustache and big cheeks. He was wearing a beige colored sweatshirt or jacket with a hood on the back and the jacket had a police cloth badge or emblem on it. The suspect had a gun, short baton, and some type of ammunition case on his belt. He appeared to be around 40 years old. The vehicle appeared to be the same type and style of our police cars. It was a white unmarked Ford with some type of push bumpers on the front of it. It had red and blue lights in the corners of the front headlights, red and blue lights up by the sun visor or rear view mirror inside the car, and then red and blue lights in the rear of the car by the back window. A cage was also observed inside the vehicle.


Safety Tips:
If you suspect that an individual is not a police officer, maintain current speeds, obey all traffic laws, and proceed to the nearest police station.
If you feel the need to pull over quickly, drive to well illuminated area or densely populated location before stopping.
Look for markings on the vehicle.
Use your cell phone to contact police if you suspect the person attempting to stop you is not a legitimate police officer.
Ask the dispatcher to send a supervisor to your location in marked police car.
Ask for credentials, a police photo identification card along with the police badge (not a business card).
Denver Police Officers will rarely make a traffic stop out of full police uniform.

So just imagine, what looks to be a police officer pulls you over, may or may not have a uniform on, and says, "Give me your wallet!" You're like, "Don't you mean my driver's license?" Him, "I'm a cop, you idot! Give me your wallet!" Then the impersonator drives off!

Maybe that's another reason to have a fake decoy wallet to put in your back pocket? lol :D When you see those lights come on and you pull over, take your driver's license and concealed permit out of your real wallet, which is in your front pocket. If the police officer asks for your wallet also, just give him your fake wallet with a wad of $1 bills and a bunch of expired credit cards. ;)
But then, what if it is an impersonator and he asks for your concealed weapon (claiming to secure it for the time being)? How would a reasonable and prudent civilian get around that, because most of the time when someone's dressed like an officer and asks to secure your weapon, it's probably for real?
 
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