Dangerous Job -- Security Guard !!!

[jercamp45]

with all the woes the job offers....

I am actually enjoying some of it...the freedom to prowl the night and hunt crackdealers...even though I just scare them off. I have deveolped a pretty good rep with Metro PD and they think I have done a pretty good job here. Where a group of 10-15 crackdealers hanging out on the street was common, now if you see 10 ALL night it is a busy night.
The alley behind the hotel was once the sight of vagrants, drug use and the occasional gang rape. But now I walk up and down it and seldom see anyone but folks from the neighborhood. Kinda gives you a good feeling that you stemmed the tide, if only for a short time.
I started doing security soon after 911. Too old to do anything else reasonably effective for my country...maybe I just wanted to assist in some manner no matter how small or insignificant.
Money sucks. I have learned alot. My job may be terminated tomorrow. Might as well have some fun!!! To demonstrate to the bottom dwellers that not all are sheeple, some will not be intimidated, coorced, nor will they back down.
There are some laughs too! Crazy antics. I saw LV Metro stop a man in the middle on Main Street. I am not sure why they were hassling him...he was only naked the waist down! Caught a hooker and her 'trick' behnd a van in my parking lot getting ready to 'consummate' a deal. I scurried them on their way.
My favorite was the macho, rough and tumble crackhead/dealer that threatened to kick the crap outta some dude on the street. Yelling and screaming threats as the man walked away. Then when the man turned and started back toward him, he began going the other way retreating, all the while hurling insult's and 'I'll get you's' as he beat a tactical withdrawal to the rear!! Hilarious!!
Jercamp45

 

[SIGarmed]

Most people in this business who do certain jobs are taking to much risk.
Unfortunately most of these workers don't have any training that they can fall back on such as former police or military. I see armored truck gaurds who obviously have no training. They can hardly handle a gun. Also the less people the company needs to do a pick up,or a drop the more money they can save.

They don't do proper surviellance, and analysis or other necessary things you should do when travelling from point a to point b, or protecting a site. They don't know basic security. They are totally vulnerable. Its a shame.

Its to the point that I would never even do the job. To do what it actually takes to be completely safe would'nt be acceptable to most businesses.



I worked for a contract company for two years after military service. The contract companies that pay low just won't get performance from their people, and they have extremely high turnover rates. More money is in supervisory, and management positions.

Its all about the companies bottom line. The less they pay the officer the more they get to keep. The typical client at a site most likely has an insurance policy so they almost could care less, almost.

Be armed? Are you kidding. That might entail paying people more, and hiring people with balls. The only thing I worried about though was my reputation.
Working around a bunch of clueless people gets old real quick, and I don't mean security people. Its a terrible job putting up with some of the clueless people in the general public. I'm so glad I don't do that job anymore. I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

 

[rick newland]

Ala Dan

Have you checked into security engineers located there in Birmingham? They have a decent training program plus it is possible to qualify with your own pistol. Their duty gun is S&W model 10, I carry a stainless 1911. I work up here in Huntsville. There are three of us at our jobsite that are retired military Law Enforcement. On our days off from our site we cover high risk business's that have had a problem with armed robberys. Us three are the only ones they trust enough not to do something stupid. I turned down a supervisor position with Wackenhut at the Chrysler plant here once I found out they were bought out by the corporation that owns Securitas, bad experiances with them in Germany.

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's Rick-

No sir, I haven't even made up my mind to entertain the
idea of ever working on a contract security basis again?
You see, I was involved in a near fatal motor vechile
accident back in March 1998; and suffered a broken neck.
After five years of living in tremendous pain, I believe I'm
going to call it quits; and file for disability. Nobody, wants
to hire a 56 year old with physical limitations. And too,
Alabama is an "at will" work state; meaning an
employer may not hire you, or fire you for any reason
or no reason! Only three states are like that,
Alabama, Mississippi, and Michigan.

So, thanks for the updated information on Wackenhut;
as I did not know they had been sold to another security
firm. Best of luck to you sir, and for GOD's sakes be careful.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[AUTIGER04]

If you are alive and breathing Wells Fargo or "Securitas" will hire you.

 

[Teufelhunden]

I didn't want to name names Dan, but my previous anecdotes come from my time with Wackenhut, or more properly, Group 4 Falck now.

I finally landed a good gig working a federal site for the 'Hut under FPS (Federal Protective Services) supervision just before I left Virginia, but I would say that even Wackenhut falls prey to many of the same problems that any other security company does. Yes, Wackenhut DOES have a highger grade of officer called a Custom Protection Officer (CPO), beneath them are the USO's (Upscale Security Officer) and the TSO (Traditional Security Officer). Each decline in level has a corresponding drop in qualifications and pay.

I worked as a CPO, which requires that you be retired/former military or LEO, Special Forces, Corrections or have a degree. Most of the CPO's you get are pretty locked on.

Having said all of these things about CPO's and Wackenhut's attempts to provide a higher grade of officer, let me ask you how often you think a client actually requested a CPO. In my 23 man staff, I had two; me, and my 2nd shift sergeant. It all goes back to the pay. When you've got USO's working for $8.50/hour, and CPO's going for $11/hour, who do you think will appear to be more attractive to the 'bottom-line' types that request bids? Even though the Marine Corps found me to be expertly qualified with both rifle and pistol, on my site the client mandated I be unarmed except for my Fists of Furyâ„¢, and the only reason I could have those is because they couldn't figure out a good way to make me forget everything the Corps taught me.

Everything a contract security company can do is dictated by the client. Some of the blame for the state of the industry lies with security companies themselves for hiring unqualified personnel and refusing to train them, but the other part of the problem is with clients who lay unrealistic demands on officers and their managers. The basic theme that irked me to no end when I was a Security Officer was that we would supposedly be hired because we were the knowledgeable ones, yet the client, who had no training or other knowledge in the field, would be the one making the decisions. It irrated me that I was being paid to be the duty expert, but my opinions on matters at hand weren't really considered. I irritatedly queried my supervisor more than once about how if they knew how to do it themselves, why were we there?

I think corporate America is terrified of offending anyone and extraordinarily politically correct. They are terrified of the liability issues (as they perceive them) should they actually arm one of their officers. I stunned a client meeting into silence once by asking why there was a 'Disaster Manager" position being paid $80k a year to draw up evacuation plans and routes for potential workplace violence incidents when they could spend $350 for a decent revolver and $6 for ammo and have the same protection from the security staff they already had on hand...

THe industry served my purpose while I was in VA; my wife was in law school, and I needed something I could put down quickly once she graduated and we moved. Having done it once however, and seen how the industry screws itself, I'm not in a hurry to go back. Now I've just got to find other work to fill the time between now and when I get on with the city PD

-Teuf

 

[c_yeager]

My experiences with Wackenhut (particularly those who work for them) is that in many cases while they do indeed have better uniforms than most other companies they do not hire a higher caliber of personalle than any other contract company. This might be a state to state thing but it seems that their "rank" structure and "proffesional" demenour tend to attract a higher rate of the true "wannabe" demographic than your smaller regional companies.

Personally i refuse to ever work contract again. yeah, i liked going to new places and doing new things on a fairly regualar basis. And i miss my old pastime of figuring out just how badly the other guys there were screwing up in virtually every way possible. But, frankly Teuf is %100 correct. There simply is NO WAY to run a proffesional and safe contract company in this market. The profit margins are so thin that nothing beyond warm bodies is proffitable at most sites. As long as someone is willing to sacrifice safety and quality of service, and so long as people are content to pay for that. That is always going to be the level of service you are going to get. The only way out of it is to work in house for a company that has a legitimate concern for the security and safety of their buisiness. And those are far and few between.

 

[gunsmith]

wacky hut

I work as an armed s.o in Frisco,on a city contract (guard city workers collecting $)
I applied to wacky hut,they turned me down,why you may ask??
I had a .357mag, .357sig,.9mm,.40s&w and .45acp on my card from CA
bsis...but no .38 caliber!
The manager interviewing me said come back with a .38 on your card.
I tried to explain how I shoot .38 all the time with my sp101 .357
but he really didn't get it.
I asked him does he know anything at all about guns? that I qualified with
a .357mag & sig so I can certainly handle a .38.
He told me he hates guns and wants them all outlawed and is glad he doesn't know anything about them
....Working for Frisco is just as bad sometimes,they want us to detain criminals only we are NOT permitted to have handcuffs,mace,batons...only guns!(I guess it's cheaper to shoot them dead then to pay for them for the injuries of a mace/baton/cuffs) a bunch of weird rules as well.
no .45acp (to scary I was told) no glazer or fed hydra-shok,no knives.
our supervisors have no millitary/leo background at all, and all but a few
are from China and have blackbelts in bureaucratic backstabbing and insist on putting themselves in dangerous situations.
i.e a few very obvious gangbangers were caseing us out,I couldn't articulate this to my supervisor because she barely speaks english & I don't speak Chinese,I guess my body language told the Gbangers I was willing to shoot them cause they didn't rob us.
I tried to explain how a Glock in .40 looks like a .9 or a .45 so why
not carry a .45?? (glock).
I am new to the security biz and have only been doing it for armed for 10 months I hope to go somewhere else in a few months.
I was an unarmed guard for awhile(3months),God those folks were real sheep!
actually I was armed,I just never told anyone
All the s/o's in SFCA are under the illusion that unarmed = safe
and so are the managers of those companies.
Also the s/o guard companies in Frisco are allmost all uber liberal SEIU / and are allways marching in anti war/anti Bush Demo's and back the CA gungrabbing Dem party
...So I am gonna look for a real good company,not wacky hut cause they only let their guards carry .38revolvers that they give you,I don't want some one elses damaged gun I want my Ruger sp or a new gp if I have to carry a revolver.
I carry a glock model 22, a LEO from FL told me that FL guards can only carry .38's...is that true?
anyway if anyone knows any good companies in the bay area pm me ok?

 

[tcdrennen]

Hmmm. Unless BSIS has changed the Gun Card recently (since my last full requal a month ago) there is NO difference between .357 Mag and .38 Special on the card - mainly because if you have a .357 you still shoot .38 for the qualifier. My cards have always said ".357/.38 9MM .40 .45" since they made me drop .380 because they had trouble fitting five calibers on the card. I only had that because when I first qualified we owned a Browning BDA and wanted every caliber we owned on the card

I have only worked armed posts and jobs and have been away from it for about 4 years - though I may see what's out there since it doesn't look like electronic hardware design/test/development is getting back on its feet anytime soon. :banghead: I do keep my permits current.

Actually, my partner and I have considered starting our own PPO: we have the hours, degrees and supervisory experience. Just not sure I want to get into the whole personnel and payroll management and regulatory hellhole.

The main reason people contract security guards is because their insurance underwriters demand or recommend it, or some regulation or contract requires it. They will always pay the minimum to get the minimum to satisfy the need. Remember, security is 100% overhead - there is no way to quantify the benefit except by how much it saves in other overhead costs (insurance, etc.) It's a self defeating profession - the better you do your job the less reason the client can see for having you around.

'Why do we pay for security when we never have any problems?"
Well, duh, you don't have problems because you have good security.

 

[Ed Straker]

I've worked security, and I've delivered pizzas. I've been hurt worse delivering pizzas than I have working security.

 

[David]

My friend, a recently retired LEO, is interested in an armed security position in Florida.

Here told me that the information he received from the state says an armed guard can only carry a .38 wheel-gun UNLESS they get some type of "special permission" from the state to carry a 9mm semi-auto!

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Holy cow! That's actually true!

http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0493/ch0493.htm

(6) Unless otherwise approved by the department, the only firearm a Class "CC," Class "D," Class "M," or Class "MB" licensee who has been issued a Class "G" license may carry is a .38 or .357 caliber revolver with factory .38 caliber ammunition only. In addition to any other firearm approved by the department, a Class "C" or Class "MA" licensee who has been issued a Class "G" license may carry a .38 caliber revolver; or a .380 caliber or 9 millimeter semiautomatic pistol; or a .357 caliber revolver with .38 caliber ammunition only. A Class "C" licensee who also holds a Class "D" license, and who has been issued a Class "G" license, may carry a 9 millimeter semiautomatic pistol while performing security-related services. No licensee may carry more than two firearms upon her or his person when performing her or his duties. A licensee may only carry a firearm of the specific type and caliber with which she or he is qualified pursuant to the firearms training referenced in subsection (8) or s. 493.6113(3)(b).

License classifications are here: http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/in...Search_String=&URL=Ch0493/SEC6201.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0493->Section%206201

The two classes that can carry a 9 are Class C (private investigator) or class MA (manager of a private investigation firm)

This is the most convoluted law I've ever seen (except for the tax code)!

So why is is okay for a security guard to carry a .38 and not a .45? Or a revolver and not a semi? I am baffled!

Matt

 

[gunsmith]

New security PPO law in CA

You have to have ONE MILLION $$ INSURANCE now,up from 500 thou from last year!.
In essence if your a self starter and want to open a private security firm in CA you need the million dollar insurance.
I guess you can add it on to your homeowners insurance (if you own a home in the bay area it might be worth that much)
Seems like another obstacle to biz in CA....

So the LEO from FL was right,I work with tourist and he was suprised to see me carrying a glock especially .40,FL has got some strange laws it looks like they are giving the criminals the advantage if I was in FL
I would want at least a glock in .40 or a good .45,you know the badguys are not going to limit the guns they could carry.
I bet it's a holdover from the pre 1987 laws that did not let regular citizens carry concealed.
No wonder FL security guards are getting killed,they're not allowed to fight back...it makes zero sense an armed guard would certainly be able to get a ccw in FL and carry allmost anything he wanted but on duty he can't!

 

[Zundfolge]

My mom's cousin was a security guard at a department store ... he was shot and killed by a shoplifter. The stuff the shoplifter stole was worth less then $20.

 

[jercamp45]

That's Florida!

Hey Matt,
Each state is different in their requirements. Florida may be a hold over from the old days where even cops more or less were stuck with the 38 wheelie. And you have to get SPECIAL tickets to carry anything else. At least they let you carry two, if ya want!
Missouri only mandates a DAO or DA w/decocker(the girls in the commision off thought they were the same thing...so my DAO had to have a decocker....I explained that since it was never 'cocked' how could it be uncocked?). But they gave leeway interms of caliber....380, 38, no 357), 9m/m, 40, 10m/m, and 45. BUT you could have only ONE gun on your license and had to requalify if you changed guns.
Here in Nevada there is not state requirements other than you have to qualify with your duty gun(serial number and caliber specific...so if you switch your Glock 22 from .40 to .357 Sig, you have to qualify with BOTH calibers). BUT the work place is another matter. Some Casino's only allow 38 or 9m/m, some internal guards are not armed, some issue the weapon but most you have to provide your own in their caliber!
Fortunately my current company does not really care, as long as I qualify with it. Soooo, I can carry a cocked and locked 1911(and have, Because I Can!!), but mostly I carry my ParaOrd LDA Companion....simply because I bought it for work in Missouri, I don't want to beat up my Colts, and if I ever get into a shooting...it will be in a vault at Metro evidence for six months with no cleaning. It works for me.
Other states have other rules, but I think most of them starting shifting to semiautos only in the last decade or so....in 1983 Missouri was a .38 wheelgun only state...as I checked on such things when I got out of the Marines.
Laws are made by politicians.....so do not fizzle your brain trying to figure out the logic that may not be there!
Jercamp45

 

[gunsmith]

Zundfolge

sorry to hear about your 2nd cousin,thats sad...was he/she an armed officer?

 

[Zundfolge]

Nope ... unarmed rent-a-cop. He was 22, in college and working as a security guard (he was a criminal justice major).

This was also about 15 years ago.

 

[David]

I think that Florida security guards should contact their state representatives and asked for that "old" wheel-gun only law to be updated to 2003 standards of officer safety!

 

[gunsmith]

maybe a lawsuit

Might do the trick.
Aren't NRA members in FL interested in this issue?
Also NY/CA which are difficult places to get CCW is there any way
to give (armed) Security CCW how would one go about changing a law like this?

 

[David]

Excellent point!

I think all armed security guards in Florida (as well as other states with a CCW law) should be given the option to carry the sidearm of their choice (as long as they can qualify with it) the same as any other person in that state who has a CCW permit.

Under the current Florida law, the way I believe I understand it, when you are on-duty as an armed security guard, you must carry a .38 wheel-gun.

However, this exact same person, the second he or she goes off-duty, can carry almost ANY handgun concealed with their Florida CCW permit!

I really don't understand this logic.

Perhaps, armed security guards (as opposed to LEOs) will only face "lightly" armed dirt-bags against whom a 5 or 6 shot .38 revolver is all they need.

:banghead: :banghead:

Any Florida lawyers out there that maybe can explain this crazy law?

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Devonai]

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Would I do it again? Well, if I had no other options I would. I'd just rather keep my opinions, health, and firearms to myself from now on.

BTW I have a Bachelor's in Criminal Justice, MA and NH CCW permits and (at the time) two years experience in the MVM and Wackenhut wasn't interested in me...

 

[Rob96]

Originally posted by Powderman

My hat's off to them. I consider them brothers in uniform, and will go to the wall for ANY Security Officer. To all of you in the profession--my thanks to you for being, in many cases, the first and ONLY responders. Stay safe, and go home at the end of your shift.

Thanks for a great statement like that. I work as the supervisor of the security dept. at one of our local hospitals. Before that I was an Air Force SP. Can working in a hospital be dangerous? You bet. We had one woman enter our E.R. with a gun to her head. Security disarmed her without any incident, she went on to get the help she desperately needed. At two other local hospitals two people actually did shoot themselves to death, one with shotgun the other with a rifle. We get to work with heroine overdoses, psych. patients, domestics and so on. What a cop on the street sees, we can see in our facilities. We are paid a good salary though. But, when I get spit on by some street scum, I still think the money isn't worth it. I think I would rather be punched, than spit on by some I.V. drug user. As for working with the local L.E. agency. We have a pretty good relationship. We are able to give them info on things going on in the area surrounding our campus, and they are quick to tespond when we call for assistance. And let me add, they always send enough people to help out.

 

[gunsmith]

Security Guard CCW?

How do we get that ball rolling anyhow?
It might be away to get CCW in under the radar in
states like CA/NY