Assess this threat

[joab]

My wife and I were walking home from her work, it's a 2 1/2 mile walk one way so I use that to exercise my dog.
There's a section of the way that is a long dark semi deserted road bordered on one side by woods. We are usually harassed along the way by the local jerks.
I've learned to look out of the back of my head so that I can see when the occasional car comes by. That way I don't jump when they scream out whatever they do. Usually something about my wife. If they are too aggressive I'll watch until they are out of sight.

One night a group of kids drove by and gave the obligatory scream to make us jump one of them standing up through the sun roof yelled "I'm gonna f**k that Asian ass". Apparently we did not give them the necessary response, so after driving about 100 yards they U-turned and came back at us.
When they did I stopped and my wife handed me the cell, which was all but useless to me, because one hand was holding the dog leash and getting it's arm pull out of socket and the other was at my hip.

When the car stopped 2 young men jumped out, one stood by the car and one ran towards us.
At this point the dog, who had been straining to go into the woods after a oppossum or something, noticed either the running or the open car door and thought he was going for a ride.
As the dog turned his attention towardsthe group the guy stopped coming towards us and spun around and ran back to the car.

At what point would you have drawn, let the dog go, or shot?

There is one minor but key detail to the story that I left out< I'll fill it in later

 

[pax]

If you "usually" get harassed along that route, it's a really, really Bad Idea to keep walking along that route.

pax

 

[joab]

Harassed meaning verbally
Usually meaning it's expected at least twice a week.

At the time of the incident there was no option but to walk that route. my truck had thrown a rod, I was out of work, and my wifes income put beans on the table and a roof over it.

I will not live my life in fear of confrontation just to avoid it.

The route I drive to work now usually has 2 or 3 accidents a week but I still take that route.

 

[ballistic gelatin]

There is one minor but key detail to the story that I left out< I'll fill it in later

Could it be that you had your hand on your hip, but didn't have a firearm? It sounds like you handled yourself just fine. Heck, if that happened to me more than once, I would be really hard pressed to walk it again.

 

[proven]

considering what they yelled, and the fact that they came back and a couple guys got out...one running towards you...

i think i would've let my wife handle the dog as soon as i saw that they were coming back, also have her call 911. that way i have both hands free.

drawing is always a last resort, but on a back road with a threat of physical violence, and then some loon charging me...i may draw to low ready.

 

[joab]

i think i would've let my wife handle the dog as soon as i saw that they were coming back, also have her call 911

Happened to fast to hand over the dog, who she could not have controlled anyway. He is 75lb of muscle, she is 100 lbs of not so much muscle.
She doesn't speak English well enough to explain to the dispatcher what was going on or the all important address that they always ask for.


Remember, there is key detail that I'm leaving out

Could it be that you had your hand on your hip, but didn't have a firearm

Nope had a 1911 with me, she had a Sharpfinger and pepper spray both in her hand.

That was the worst of it. Usually it is just idiots yelling Hooah or gotcha to make us jump.

 

[proven]

awaiting key detail

 

[joab]

awaiting key detail

Alright I'm tired and going to bed anyway.

This was a 2 lane road. Our side had a sidewalk, which we were on. They pulled over on the opposite side of the road probably 50 to 60 feet away. figuring that the street is 30 ft wide and the sidewalk was about 20 feet off the road (these are guesstimates, which I suck at)

I picked a point in the road as his point of no return. A black spot in the road that I guessed was about 30 feet from where I was.
At that point I would let go of the dog , more to get rid of him than anything else,and draw to low ready as there should have been no mistaking my posture as the " I'm gonna draw any second" position. (Think the Earps just before Doc blew Billy the kiss)

here comes the detail
At that exact black spot in the road he stopped, bent down and picked it up As he ran back to the car he put his baseball cap, that had blown off his head when he was hanging out of the sunroof, back on his head, resumed his middle seat in the car, and the other guy got back in

I guess my point is that threats aren't always what they seem and things could have gotten really nasty if I had been just a little more trigger happy and he had been a little more stupid.

A thread I read here recently about when to draw reminded me of this event.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

If you'd drawn down on the kid running at you, I bet the harrassment would've ended. [kid's face -- ]

Course you've gotta call the cops once you pull the gun, but it probably would have been worth it [to me, at least].

 

[NMshooter]

Next time you and the wife are walking around after dark, you, her, or both should have flashlights in hand. Very bright ones.

 

[proven]

sounds like you handled it very well.

can't believe they came back for the kids hat after what they said.

 

[aroshi]

It seems you had a lot of things counting against you at the time. I'm glad the situation was not as much of a threat as it could have been. From your writing, it seems that you now know what was not in your favor. I hope that you've been working to improve your odds since then.

"Be ready. If you're not ready, cheat. If you cheat, lie your ass off about it. But in all cases, survive." A friend of mine says something like that all the time. Pretty much just do what you can with what you have, always.

Best wishes.

 

[psyopspec]

Wish you woulda held back on that detail for a day or so too. But you can't please everyon, right?

Things I woulda done:
1) Have a dog that will at least bare teeth and growl on command, if not attack.
At thirty feet I wouldn't have released it. Rather, let it be going wild at the end of it's leash as a deterrent to the possible attacker.

2) When he started running towards me, leash goes in non-firing hand, firing hand is resting on butt of firearm (still concealed).

3) Thirty feet and closing is a little late for 911.

4) You didn't mention it was dark, but like others have said, have a flashlight. I don't know how dark it was, but if we're talking pitch-type I'd have handed the dog over to the lady so you could have the free hand for the light.

5) Unless she's as armed as you, have her get behind you. If more armed and better trained, in front. If you know any ladies that fit the latter characteristic, have them pm me.

 

[joab]

Wish you woulda held back on that detail for a day or so too. But you can't please everyon, right?

That was the original plan but the thread didn't seem to be going anywhere. Maybe too many of this type floating around or I didn't give it enough time.
It would have been interesting to see if anybody would have drawn without that detail.

Have a dog that will at least bare teeth and growl on command, if not attack.

The dog is a Pit Bull with the heart of a Beagle he doesn't have the heart to be an attack dog and it is visibly apparent to any body that has been around dogs at all
He and I had one misunderstanding a few weeks back but other than that he displays hardly any aggression, especially when he's outside the gate. He's just for show.
I would have had to let him go just to get him out of my way. I figured he would either go after the opossum or the open car door.

When he started running towards me, leash goes in non-firing hand, firing hand is resting on butt of firearm (still concealed)

That's the position I was in but he is a very strong dog and he really wanted that opossum. I'm switching to a new type of leash that wraps around his muzzle and is supposed to stop the pulling

Thirty feet and closing is a little late for 911

I would agree if the incident had started at 30 feet. By the time he got that far the gun was fully in my hand and 1/4 out of the holster. Still cutting it close but any further and I don't think I could have justified it and at that distance I still could have moved defensibly to put distance between us and my wife (hypothetically)

You didn't mention it was dark, but like others have said, have a flashlight. I don't know how dark it was,

Light enough that I could identify the target dark enough that I could not have IDed him in a line up. The flashlight thing was just stupidity on my part whether I felt like there was a human threat or not the woods or full of foxes, coons, and I have heard reports of bears moving this way not to mention an increasing population of feral dogs and this is an area known for severe yearly rabies outbreaks

Unless she's as armed as you, have her get behind you.

Less armed but more apt. She'll cut you and call you a sissy for bleeding. She's a Mekong River girl just about as mean as they come when you hurt her feelings. If she had understood what they said it would have been a much different outcome.
Ever see Malcom in The Middle. The oldest brother is married to a girl much like my wife.

I hope that you've been working to improve your odds since then.

Yeah I bought a damn truck so I wouldn't have to make that walk any more. Now I walk him when I get home at 5:30 when it's still reasonably light out. I also found a dog walk nearby that's about 100 miles or so. If I've irritated my wife me a Dozer can just keep wlaking

 

[joerng]

picking a point

is the best way to handle that situation. i teach that in my home defense classes. pick a point at a distance that you feel is just outside too close and when he/she gets to it you draw, and maybe shoot. depends on what BG does. if he/she is armed then no question shoot as soon as you are on target.