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ATF April Fools joke?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Greg Bell, Mar 24, 2004.

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  1. Greg Bell

    Greg Bell Member

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    Hey, I was trolling the ATF site when I noticed ATF Form 5520.3 Registration of Volatile Fruit-Flavor Concentrate Plant. ***? I about spewed my Snapple--but then I thought again!
     
  2. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    Link?

    :scrutiny:
     
  3. Benjamin

    Benjamin Member

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  4. HABU

    HABU Member

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    What is a Fruit-Flavor Concentrate Plant, and how is it volatile?

    Looks like F-Troop is diversifying :confused:
     
  5. Mr. Clark

    Mr. Clark Member

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    This is really funny. Who knew strawberry wine could be so dangerous? Gov speak for wine=volatile fruit-flavor concentrate

    http://www.wineinstitute.org/fedlaw/regs/27cfr_part24/

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    27 CFR PART 24--Subpart D--Establishment and Operations

    APPLICATION
    § 24.113 Description of volatile fruit-flavor concentrate operations.

    Each applicant intending to produce volatile fruit-flavor concentrate shall include on the ATF F 5120.25 application a step-by-step description of the production procedure to be employed. The description will commence with the obtaining of juice from the fruit and continue through each step of the process to removal of volatile fruit-flavor concentrate from the system. If volatile fruit-flavor concentrate containing more than 24 percent alcohol (high-proof concentrates (essences)) is to be produced, the proprietor shall indicate any step in the production procedure at which any spirits may be fit for beverage purposes. The maximum quantity in gallons of fruit most used and volatile fruit-flavor concentrate produced in 24 hours, the maximum and minimum fold, and the maximum percent of alcohol in the volatile fruit-flavor concentrate will be stated for each kind of fruit used. (Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1379, as amended, 1380, as amended, 1392, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5356, 5361, 5511))

    (Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1512-0058)

    § 24.85 Essences.

    Essences or extracts (preparations of natural constituents extracted from fruit, herbs, berries, etc.) may be used in the production of any formula wine except agricultural wine. The essences may be produced on wine premises or elsewhere. Where an essence contains spirits, use of the essence may not increase the volume of the wine more than 10 percent nor its alcohol content more than four percent by volume. (Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1386, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5386))

    § 24.86 Essences produced on wine premises.

    Wine, taxpaid spirits, or spirits withdrawn tax-free may be used in the production of essences on wine premises. The description of the process for producing the essence may be included as part of a formula for the production of a formula wine or a separate formula may be filed on ATF F5120.29. If a separate formula is filed for the essence, the serial number of the formula by which it is produced will be shown in the ATF F 5120.29 covering the formula wine in which it is to be used. If an essence is to be made in quantities greater than required for individual lots of formula wine, and stored on the premises, a separate formula will be filed for the essence. Essences made on wine premises with wine spirits withdrawn free of tax pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 5214(a)(5) may only be used in the production of a formula wine, and may not be removed from the premises where made. Essences made on wine premises with the use of tax-free spirits withdrawn free of tax pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 5214(a)(13) may only be used in the production of a nonbeverage wine or wine product and may not be removed from the premises where made. The ATF F 5120.29 for the production of an essence is filed in the same manner as for the production of formula wine and a sample of the essence produced will be at least four fluid ounces. (Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1386, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5386))
     
  6. Brian Dale

    Brian Dale Member

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    Ummm, folks, the title of the form IS hilarious, but in this instance, "Plant" means "factory." A place where fruit flavors are distilled from botanical, grow-up-outta-the-ground "plants," their fruits & flowers or, presumably, the organic synthesis of artificial flavors. Line 9. of the form is for a listing of "each still and condenser by serial number, kind, capacity in wine gallons of distillate per hour,and intended use." What's the "A" in ATF, everybody?

    I wonder what a "wine gallon" is ... maybe a weighted %-alcohol thing?

    Pretty funny, though. I do apologize for raining on the party. ;)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    EDIT: Curses, Mr. Clark! You are faster and more erudite than I! :fire:

    :D :D :D
     
  7. Greg Bell

    Greg Bell Member

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    "Pretty funny, though. I do apologize for raining on the party. "


    Except that it is VOLATILE fruit concentrate! I believe that is why it is in the explosive/firearms section, not alcohol. Maybe the web guy screwed up putting it there!
     
  8. Brian Dale

    Brian Dale Member

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    Got me. Looks like the 5300 series forms (and 4473) have to do with firearms and ammunition, the 5400s are explosives, the header on the 5500s is "Reserved," whatever that means (this form—5520.3—is the only one under that header); 5630.7 NFA Revenue Pgm - only one form there, as well.

    Wait -- -- -- ??? Am I seriously sitting here, studying a gov't web site and trying to analyze the way that FORMS are NUMBERED???

    I'm going to go and make some tea.
     
  9. Greg Bell

    Greg Bell Member

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    ~5100 is for booze. They have all the booze and toe-backy on a totally different web site.
     
  10. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    Happy Bob,

    Um... "Intrusive"? No, wait, that's an "I"... Hmmm... Wait! "Unconstitutional"? Nope, nope, that's "U"... Oh! I know! "Annoying"!
     
  11. Declaration Day

    Declaration Day Member

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    SHHHHHHHHHHH!

    Don't tell the terrorists that fruit concentrate is volatile!
     
  12. 4570Rick

    4570Rick Member

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    :rolleyes:

    The alphabet soup groups never cease to amaze me.
     
  13. G21dude

    G21dude Member

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    Forwarded to a buddy of mine @ ATF...

    Sent email as follows:

    -----------
    Subject: Tell me this is an early April Fool's joke

    http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f55203.pdf


    If not, what's it for, really?!?! Laughed my head off when someone showed
    me that.
    -----------
    We'll see if he takes the bait... he'll probably laugh his head off, too.
     
  14. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Them there revenoors dang well better stay the heck out of these here hills!

    :D
     
  15. clubsoda22

    clubsoda22 member

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    ::raises can of welch's grape concentrate over head:: Careful! He's armed!
     
  16. AJ Dual

    AJ Dual member

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    I get it. Happy Bob is on it.

    Sounds silly, but it makes sense. Within the logical confines of our hideously over-regulated society, that is...

    They're talking about fruit flavorings that use alcohol in significant quantities as the carrier fluid. Just like Vanilla extract, real or artificial, does. I just watched a Food Network segment on how vanilla is made, and they showed the step where they poured in gallons of pure Ethyl alcohol, basicaly food service "Everclear" booze in big plastic jugs. McCormic allways has those little bottles of lemon and maple flavoring etc. along with the vanilla in the spice and baking asile of the grocery store.

    I think this is to register and regulate companies that make fruit extracts that use lots of alcohol in them to be sure someone isn't using that kind of manufacture as cover for a real liquor operation. Just like how fermenting and distilling alcohol for fuel use has ATF regulation and oversight as well, to be sure that it's not being used as moonshine for human consumption.
     
  17. Greg Bell

    Greg Bell Member

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    Yeah, but it is still posted in the firearms and splosives' area. Hilarious!
     
  18. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    "Mighty mighty pleasin'
    Pappy's corn squeezin's ....."

    :D
     
  19. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Member

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    mayhaps strawberry wine is the new combustion fuel of choice for potato cannons
    i would of thought vodka, but you know these kids today...


    WOOOOOMMM!
    oh no! a drive by flaming fruiting!
     
  20. Ironbarr

    Ironbarr Member In Memoriam

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    I wonder how Rossi, et al feel about having to disclose their formulas... thought that was covered by something akin to patent law.

    Well, we can now hang up the Molotov cocktail phrase and start talking about Welch's cocktails. "More punch". (But all that purple???):D
     
  21. BluesBear

    BluesBear member

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    Happy Bob, a wine gallon is 231 cubic inches. It's an old English measurement, different from the Imperial gallon. It is what the US Gallon is based upon.
     
  22. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    I know exactly what this is all about. I had to fill out Ethanol usage paperwork today at the end of my shift. We use 200 proof (pure) ethanol for production of drugs and drug intermediates where I work. The treasury Dept. is very strict about the details you have to provide for the usage of the alcohol. Most of the rules and mathematical formulas were are forced to use have little bearing on the reality of pharmaceutical production, but we have to use them because some bureaucrat somewhere who has no clue about the chemistry we do, wants us to.

    My company produces narcotics and uses highly controlled narcotics for starting materials to make even more potent drugs. Amazingly, the DEA, who we also deal with closely has a very good understanding of what we do, is far less anal retentive, and actually requires a bit less paperwork for our controlled substances than what the BATFE requires for ethanol and the precious tax that is involved with it.

    Current tax on a gallon of 200 proof ethanol is between $24-26.
    We use dozens of 55 gallon drums of the stuff a year.

    The difference in treatment is the difference between enforcement of the law (DEA) and tax collection (Treasury department).
     
  23. Brian Dale

    Brian Dale Member

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    231 cubic inches...

    Thanks, BluesBear! That confirms it—the combined membership here knows everything! For any aspect of human knowledge, it appears that someone here at THR knows it, or knows where to find it. I like this group of people; I just want to tell y'all that again.
     
  24. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    Couldnt be. Its March 26th. If it were an april fools joke we wouldnt see it untill mid May because of set-backs.
     
  25. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

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    Good point Zach!

    I guess this falls under the category of "We don't have a sense of humor. Don't laugh.... we're armed!"
     
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