ATF Shotgun Study - Link Inside

Status
Not open for further replies.
For some reason my computer doesn't want to let me open a .pdf... Can somebody post up some cliff notes?
 
A Saiga imported with a 5 round magazine would be OK then right? It has a standard stock, and no other illegal features.

If it is then altered by a company such as Tromix after entering the US, it should still be legal?
 
Balrog, yes, I think the Saiga is safe. And as long as it complies with 922r (post alteration) its legal. What concerns me is the possibility that the ATF gets into the business of "modability" of firearms - ie if they are able to take drum mags, etc.
 
Balrog, yes, I think the Saiga is safe. And as long as it complies with 922r (post alteration) its legal. What concerns me is the possibility that the ATF gets into the business of "modability" of firearms - ie if they are able to take drum mags, etc.
Click to expand...

That ought to be out of their purview. Still, Saiga is moving up on my things to buy list.
 
Practical competitive shooting is not considered "sporting?"

Edit to add:
Sporting to me means that it can be done competitively. How is a shooting competition not considered sporting?
 
Last edited:
So its unsporting to have night sights, a rail longer than the receiver, a heavy gun, or a flashlight mounted to your gun. Who cares if its sporting or not, since when was the second amendment about sports. I also liked the part about the shotguns being to hard to maneuver for sports, yet some how not to hard for the military.
 
Last edited:
The "General Firearm Statutes by State" for Ohio are not in ORC 2923.11 as listed, and do not apply to the entire state. Everything they mention is specific to one city, Columbus. :banghead:
 
Where did it specifically mention Saiga? I must have missed it. It mentions, like the previous studies about certain specific features, not brand names.............
 
There is a pic of the saiga, and two pics of the drum. Oddly, they name the 4 other shotguns on the same page as the Saiga, but do not label the Saiga by name. Excluding search engines? It is not shown in it's importable config as well, another flaw in the doc.

Since the saiga is imported in sporting config, there's not much worry on this, right? What is the purpose of this study? I think there had to be some driving factor to spur the study. Are there other shotguns imported in a configuration not narrowly defined as "sporting"?
 
It's amazing to me that no one considered home defense back in 1968, 89,96,etc. etc or considers it in 2011 .
I would think a shotgun with a forward grip to be absolutely suitable for home defense. It enables the home "defender" to better conrol the shotgun.
Do we have to have a "Heller" decision for everything??? chig
 
What other shotguns are listed? Are they what was previously banned like the USAS 12 and Street Sweeper?
 
527, this document doesn't "ban" anything. The items you mention are still classified as DDs. This study states basically shotguns with any of the following features cannot be imported:

(1) Folding, telescoping, or collapsible stocks;
(2) bayonet lugs;
(3) flash suppressors;
(4) magazines over 5 rounds, or a drum magazine;
(5) grenade-launcher mounts;
(6) integrated rail systems (other than on top of the receiver or barrel);
(7) light enhancing devices;
(8) excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for 12 gauge or smaller);
(9) excessive bulk (greater than 3 inches in width and/or greater than 4 inches in depth);
(10) forward pistol grips or other protruding parts designed or used for gripping the
shotgun with the shooter’s extended hand.
 
i wonder why saiga (or other brands) dont do like glock does
import the gun in a legal format using super cheap parts, then when they get here, change em up with American made parts and sell them as they were intended to be sold
 
It appears to me that this doesn't actually change anything. The surprisingly good news is that the ATF views tube and detachable box magazines as equal; they are only concerned with capacity, so this document doesn't bode as badly for the Saiga as we had feared.

It definitely highlights the ridiculousness of some of our laws, and the idiocy of our politicians. I especially liked the quote from Chris Dodd.

I was shocked that they actually mentioned possibly considering USPSA as a sporting purpose, although they decided it would need further study.

All in all not as bad as was feared when the news broke over the weekend. I guess the Prince Law guy is finally vindicated somewhat.

I will add that it is a little scary to see so much movement in the anti-gun world at one time. Nationally, it has been a pretty easy decade or so, but now we have ATF getting a new, anti-gun director and issuing "studies", rumors of the POTUS calling for new restrictions, and even prominent GOP elitists calling for magazine restrictions. Circle the wagons, folks. We need to build on our pro-gun gains in 2012.

ETA:
ATF said:
On the list of 10 "disqualifying features", one really stood out as odd to me:
(1) Folding, telescoping, or collapsible stocks;
(2) bayonet lugs;
(3) flash suppressors;
(4) magazines over 5 rounds, or a drum magazine;
(5) grenade-launcher mounts;
(6) integrated rail systems (other than on top of the receiver or barrel);
(7) light enhancing devices;
(8) excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for 12 gauge or smaller);
(9) excessive bulk (greater than 3 inches in width and/or greater than 4 inches in depth);
(10) forward pistol grips or other protruding parts designed or used for gripping the
shotgun with the shooter’s extended hand.
Click to expand...

The other stuff is all evil features from AWB of old; what the heck do they have against rails? I mean, I think modern guns are way over-railed too, but why is having a convenient mounting spot for a light un-sporting?
 
Last edited:
Beacuse you don't need an underbarrel flashlight to shoot skeet, and it's illegal to hunt at night. Self defense, as mentioned already, isn't "sporting".
 
I would like to point out that despite the ATF study on importable features, this does NOT amend 922r in any way shape or form.

You wouldn't require compliance parts to install a rail on an imported shotgun.
 
Beacuse you don't need an underbarrel flashlight to shoot skeet, and it's illegal to hunt at night. Self defense, as mentioned already, isn't "sporting".
Click to expand...

No offence but I've never heard of anyone Coon hunting anytime other than night. Coyotes can be hunted at night in many states as well. There are many other animals that can be hunted at night if you live in the right state, here in AL were pretty much limited to Coon as far as I know.
 
....this is like Uncle Sam defining a so-called assault rifle. ...if it is black and scarry looking, it must be an assault rifle so we need to ban it.
 
DeepSouth said:
No offence but I've never heard of anyone Coon hunting anytime other than night. Coyotes can be hunted at night in many states as well. There are many other animals that can be hunted at night if you live in the right state, here in AL were pretty much limited to Coon as far as I know.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. BATF doesn't.

"Devices or optics that allow illumination of a target in low-light conditions are generally for military and law enforcement purposes and are not typically found on sporting shotguns because it is generally illegal to hunt at night."

Page 11.
 
Looks like pistol grips on shotguns are now "sporting"!

So, importers- starting bringing in the Saiga with the pistol grip!!!!!!!!!
 
The BATFE wants written comments by May 1, 2011 (The communist holiday - Mayday, by the way). Does anyone know the efficacy of submitting a written response? And or, if it is better to have a response published somewhere?
 
Saiga doesn't come with standard 5-shell mags, at least not when I bought mine. All I have is 10-shell mags for mine; now they have 12-shell mags. Never really wanted the drum.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

R
  • Locked
ATF's new rules on importing shotguns. Anyone know anything about this?
Replies
2
Views
392
Geneseo1911
G
M
  • Locked
ATF mulling over banning importation of certain shotguns
Replies
3
Views
477
Sam1911
S
J
  • Locked
Send Emails to ATF Regarding Possible Shotgun Ban
Replies
1
Views
396
6x6pinz
6
Acera
  • Locked
Let the ATF know how you feel!!
2 3
Replies
56
Views
4K
Bubbles
B
TRX
  • Locked
ATF open bolt ruling, where?
Replies
6
Views
3K
PBR Streetgang
P
Back
Top