ATF Shotgun Study - Link Inside

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Since the big dillema in Washington right now is where to cut the budget, I nominate the BATFE for first in line.

And we SO have got to get rid of that 1968 GCA and the other import restrictions.

Laws that restrict access to firearms that do not have a "sporting purpose" do not belong in a free society.
 
It is sort of a joke that a firearm must be described as a "sporting" arm in order to be imported. It is a blasphemous contradiction to the essence of the 2A. Furthermore, how is the Saiga any more deadly than any other weapon, if causing death is the intent of the individual?
 
So does this mean they are going to end up forcing us Saiga owners to register them as Title 2 just like they did with Streetsweepers and the USAS-12?
 
These ATF "studies" are so ridiculously stupid. We should eliminate the BATFE. There is no need for it. Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms are all legal, and we do not need to pay taxes to support these kinds of "studies" looking at aesthetic features of firearms for no reason when there is no evidence that gun control laws reduce violent crime.
 
Saiga doesn't come with standard 5-shell mags, at least not when I bought mine. All I have is 10-shell mags for mine; now they have 12-shell mags. Never really wanted the drum
.

Your Saiga shotgun came with a 10 round factory mag?
 
It looks to me like the end result is you can still have your Tromix-converted Saiga, you'll just have to jump through the 922(r) hoops to make sure all the nasty parts are made here in the good ol' USA.
 
Here's one that ships with both a 5-round and the newer 12-rounds. Maybe mine did also come with a 5-rounder with it, but it's been so long I don't remember because all I use are 10-rounders; ordered them in bulk way back when I bought the gun.

In order for them to be legal they ship from Russia with no more than 5 round mags. After they are 922r compliant (like the one in the link) anything goes mag wise. Izzy makes 8 rounders but they are hard to get here.
 
In order for them to be legal they ship from Russia with no more than 5 round mags. After they are 922r compliant (like the one in the link) anything goes mag wise. Izzy makes 8 rounders but they are hard to get here.

That's the site I got mine off of a few years ago. Looks like they've gone up about $300 since I got mine.
 
And I'll say again since I really can't stress this enough, an ATF Study does NOT override 922r.

For instance, the Norinco trench gun with the bayonet lug /IS/ 922r compliant, but the ATF has banned it from importation under the sporting purposes clause.

But Norinco can ship the non-trench gun version, and ship the bayonet lug/heat shield separately, and it can be assembled by the importer once it arrives. Perfectly legal, because it is still 922r compliant (only one prohibited feature).

The whole study is basically a pointless exercise.


Edited to add: They're accepting comment by email from Jan 31 through May 31 2011. I fully intend to send an email, emphasizing the fact that their study on importability is in DIRECT conflict with existing federal law (922r) that clearly defines exactly what is, and what is not importable.
 
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Practical competitive shooting is not considered "sporting?"

Actually, it sounded like they were about to agree that it is now "sporting" but decided that this paper on shotguns was not the right place to do it. Hopefully there will be another study on sporting purposes that specifically recognizes the practical shooting sports.


It also surprised me that the ATF admits that "sporting purpose" is a changing definition, and what it meant years ago is not the same as now. So that means if you want more cool guns imported as "sporting arms", start using similar guns in practical shooting competitions. Once enough of them are used in general sporting competitions, the definition may encompass them.
 
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(8) excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for 12 gauge or smaller);
(9) excessive bulk (greater than 3 inches in width and/or greater than 4 inches in depth);

God forbid that a foreign gun be hard to use! Thanks BATF, you've saved us from that horror.
 
After re-reading the study, and reading some other forums about it, there is one thing that does seriously concern me.

It is not the ATF that decides what meets the sporting purposes definition, it is the Attorney General (Currently Eric Holder). So this study is just a suggestion to Eric as to what to consider as "sporting purpose".

Currently this study only addresses importation, but the Attorney General also decides on Destructive device classification of firearms with a bore diameter of greater than .5" (nearly all shotgun gages). So if the Attorney General uses the same definition of "sporting purpose" as laid out in this study to make Destructive Device determinations, then Every shotgun in the US, that does not pass the ATF's "sporting purpose" test in this study could be deemed an NFA regulated Destructive Device.

That means any shotgun larger than .410 that has greater than 5 round mag capacity, ability to accept a detachable magazine, or an accessory rail anywhere other than on the top could be NFA regulated soon.

It seems like this study was only the first step, next step comes from Eric Holder.....I sure hope I am wrong.
 
The BATFE wants written comments by May 1, 2011 (The communist holiday - Mayday, by the way). Does anyone know the efficacy of submitting a written response? And or, if it is better to have a response published somewhere?

I do not know how much stock the ATF places on comments from the public, but in general when considering new regulations, federal agencies have to keep the comments on file. I doubt that comments from one person would do much good, but would think that if they got enough comments on something that they got blatantly wrong (like hunting at night) they would be forced to respond. The ATF is implementing the '68 GCA so comments on how pointless the "sporting purpose" requirement is are not going to get anywhere. I believe that your comments (along with your name and address) are public records so behave accordingly.

If your representative or senators are generally favorable towards gun rights, I would recommend submitting comments to them as well. Congress could always make an attempt to amend the '68 GCA so you can feel free to submit all the comments you like about how pointless some of the requirements are.

If you do submit comments, please be a good ambassador for the gun community. It will not help our cause if we appear to be irresponsible or idiotic.
 
The other thing in this that I find concerning is this:

ATF Study on Importability of Certain Shotguns

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http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf


Don't think that if you do not shoot shot guns this doesn't affect you:


In particular, the working group examined participation in and popularity of practical shooting
events as governed by formal rules, such as those of the United States Practical Shooting
Association (USPSA) and International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC), to determine
whether it was appropriate to consider these events a “sporting purpose” under § 925(d)(3).
While the number of members reported for USPSA is similar to the membership for other
shotgun shooting organizations,
6 the working group ultimately determined that it was not
appropriate to use this shotgun study to determine whether practical shooting is “sporting” under
§ 925(d)(3). A change in ATF’s position on practical shooting has potential implications for rifle
and handgun classifications as well. Therefore, the working group believes that a more thorough
and complete assessment is necessary before ATF can consider practical shooting as a generally
recognized sporting purpose.
The working group agreed with the previous studies in that the activity known as “plinking” is
“primarily a pastime” and could not be considered a recognized sport for the purposes of


importation.7 Because almost any firearm can be used in that activity, such a broad reading of
“sporting purpose” would be contrary to the congressional intent in enacting section 925(d)(3).
For these reasons, the working group recommends that plinking not be considered a sporting
purpose.
However, consistent with past court decisions and Congressional intent, the working
group recognized hunting and other more generally recognized or formalized competitive events

similar to the traditional shooting sports of trap, skeet, and clays
 
The ultimate point to this whole thing is just how fundamentally idiotic the "sporting purposes" clause is, especially in light of the Heller decision, which acknowledged a right to personal self defense with a firearm.

Amend the law to remove the "sporting purposes" clause, and a lot of this nonsense can be stopped at the source. Yeah, I know I'm dreaming.
 
Items 8 and 9 are really odd:

(8) excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for 12 gauge or smaller);
(9) excessive bulk (greater than 3 inches in width and/or greater than 4 inches in depth);

What possible advantage would a heavy bulky shotgun be in resisting the government?
 
Items 8 and 9 are really odd:

(8) excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for 12 gauge or smaller);
(9) excessive bulk (greater than 3 inches in width and/or greater than 4 inches in depth);

What possible advantage would a heavy bulky shotgun be in resisting the government?

Scaring the politicians.
 
I think a lot of what you have here is a good demonstration of what happens when you start letting the government try to define things. Moving targets, imprecise definitions that get interpreted in different ways depending on who reads them and when they read them.

One of my basic points of contention with those who feel the government should have control over most everything we (the citizenry in general) we do.

::EDIT::
FIVETWOSEVEN: I do like scaring the politicians, this is one of the shirts I make a point to wear when forced to travel by air. I have another one that's also good that says: "KGB: Still Watching You" The sad part is I have had many people not know what the KGB was.
 
I myself am still trying to figure out why "sporting purpose" has anything to do with the legalities of a firearms features. The 2nd amendment is about defense, its the basis of firearm ownership in this country. I could care less about sporting use out of a defensive arm. Defensive arms are what the 2nd amendment are about.:confused: NRA?
 
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