Attack in Denver

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.455_Hunter

.455_Hunter

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This happened over the weekend here in Denver.

What did this couple do wrong? Let’s avoid the never be out after midnight argument- some people are required or choose to be out at that time.

If the man and/or women were carrying in this case, when would have been the appropriate time to draw? to fire?

How would you deal with the multiple attackers?

Please discuss…

Beating At Gas Station Caught On Tape
Husband, Wife Attacked After Wife Sexually Harassed

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/25638676/detail.html
 
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Just remember... when it's a 5 on 1 fight and your life is on the line, the police are only 26 min. away.

When to draw?

imo. right when they said "we should rape her"... with knowledge of the numbers and character of the gang, I'd want to draw right then and their. But I would attempt to draw covertly so they didn't see it, but I was ready. Then I'd get back in the car and bolt.

If they came towards me, I'd get between them and my wife, bring the gun to bear with finger on trigger and safety off.....

Meeting aggression with aggression can be a potent strategy...

Shouting out "who get's it first" while bringing the handgun on target is going to either provoke an immediate rush, or set them back.

I'd point the muzzle to COM of the "baddest looking" of the closest members of the group... but my eyes would be on the hands of the other groupies, to see who is drawing a piece.

Any closer, or a move to draw and the mag gets emptied fast.

Talking to them was a big mistake... especially attempting to reason with them... or appealing to some wished for shred of decency.

Hoping to find safety in the store may sound reasonable, but it obviously didn't deter them one bit.
 
Inside a convenience store and nothing at hand to throw or use as a weapon against multiple attackers?
Twinkies? No.
40oz bottle of beer? Hmmm.
Cans of dog food? Hmmm.
Anything with ammonia in it nearby or at hand? Maybe, maybe not
Hot coffee in the face? Possibly

Become a human punching bag? Preferably not if anything, even if only twinkies on display, are at hand.

But I wasn't there and I'd bet it happened pretty quickly
 
Based on that fact pattern, 5 thugs against 1 man and his wife, I would deem those uttered words as a threat to serious bodily injury to harm to my wife, who I have the legal right (and I would argue duty) to protect.

I'd draw my weapon and put it in the low ready in their direction.

If I could get my wife before she went into the rest room, I'd tell her to get in the drivers seat while I got in the passengers seat, with gun ready, and leave.

If she had already went into the store, if I could safetly and quickly get her on her phone I'd summon her out immediately, while defending her and the door and keeping the thugs away from the door or from going inside.

Depending on how things evolved outside, I might go in after her or might wait outside for her to come out.

If I wanted to retrieve her, I'd run in after her and tell the store clerk to dial 911. Then I'd possibly wait for the police. Going back outside may put you in a shoot out.

Any of them move in an aggressive manner and they'd get two COM shots.

I might try to leave if it appeared that these thugs had left, but then again getting into your car
 
Sorry, but if somebody says maybe we should rape her, they should have climbed back in the car and left. If the gang was between them and the car they did the right thing by backing towards the store.

If the guy said, ‘We’re going to jump you,’ then it would be time to draw. If they were moving in your direction it would be time to distribute lead. A two shot version of the failure drill seems like it would be required.

In North Carolina four things make this almost a 100% justifiable shooting situation. There was a threat of sexual assault, there was a threat of physical abuse, the couple attempted to retreat, and the gang continued to advance.

This story makes me want to consider a bug or at least another clip.
 
"Merry Christmas, Darlin'"

Guess what he's getting her for a gift ...... and a six-week training course.
 
The moment they advanced after the verbal threats they would have been looking at the muzzle of a gun. I've been in a lot of scraps but 5 on 1 are bad odds and I wasn't put here to be nobodys punching bag!
 
Ugly story, but there are some good lessons here. The first is to be armed. I'm glad the guy survived... 5 thugs could have killed him.
 
Situational awareness too... if you pull up to a gas station at 230 am and 5 lingering thugs, drive on. If you must stop, stick together. She should have waited in the car until he was done pumping gas, then go into the store together while he stands guard at the bathroom.
 
Stopping at 'convenience stores' once dark out -


Be very aware when pulling in to the parking lot, pull in slowly, scanning for any persons or conditions which might be cues to situations one would prefer to avoid.


If all seems well, once parked, pause for a little bit, relax, be alert look around some more...daubtle a little bit.


Then, if all seems alright, "then" get out of the Car, locking it, keys in hand, and proceed to enter the store.

Park strategically when possible, anticipating a possible need for a timely exit.


If anything in the Store seems 'off' or 'sketchy' or offers cues to a possible situation one would prefer to avoid, leave instantly, and casually.


Observing these points may well have saved that couple their troubles.
 
As soon as I would have heard those comments and had them advancing towards me, I would be ready to draw. I would back into the gas station as they did and have the gas station attendant call 911. 5 to 1 is bad odds, but it turns in your favor when all 5 have to walk through the door one at a time.

Id make that gas station my Alamo. If you want to take my life, my wife, or my weapons then Molon Labe!
 
Wow, this happened less than a mile from my home. Of course, an incredible amount of indecency happens less than a mile from my home because I live in downtown Denver.

It's very nice during the day but I usually stay at home at night.

I don't want to put any blame on the victims, they did nothing wrong. And I don't want to suggest that that's a particularly bad part of town (it's about middling). But under virtually no circumstances would I stop at that location at 2:45am on the Saturday night before Halloween.

Reading things like this just make me count the days down until I can leave the city.
 
I think a prompt retreat would have been the best option IF POSSIBLE! While you might be justified in shooting in a situation like that with 5 to 1 odds you are risking that one if them may disarm you as they mob you, even if you do manage to shoot one of them. A lot of those thugs are hardened criminals and if they are gang members have been shot at before. I know of incidents where those gang members have had guns pulled on them and they continue to advance saying "go ahead shoot me!" You get five that are like that you may not be able to get them all before they disarm you and turn your own gun on you and your wife. On the other hand if there is no other option you might as well go down fighting... Maybe they won't be determined and will scatter as soon as the first one is dropped. Just a little food for thought...

The victims didn't do anything to deserve this but I think its a good example of why you should stay alert so you can avoid such an incident before it takes place. This is also a good example why you should train and be prepared to defend yourself. The response time does not surprise me at all because agencies all over the country, even in major cities, are so short staffed they can't get anywhere quickly. When all officers are on calls with nobody in service nobody can respond. Everyone should write the mayors office if you live in a city like Denver and complain about the horrible response times so they quit shipping officers off the street to the airport ( feds pay airport police budgets) and stop laying officers off.
 
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As soon as the thugs advanced I would have drawn while shouting loud verbal commands to back away. If that did not stop the advance I would be forced to fire. There is a clear disparity of force. They have the means, ability, opportunity and intent to commit a forcible felony. A reasonable person would be in fear for their life.
 
+1 on that

First off - don't be at a gas station at 2:45am.
Click to expand...

But if you're gonna have to be at a gas station or convenience store at 2.45am be armed. If you're not armed, keep driving if you see anything that makes you uncomfortable. If you hear someone say "We should rape her" - draw covertly and get ready to get back into the car and drive away. If you can't get back to the car and the people are approaching - shoot the leader. No ifs ands or buts. It's five guys. What would a reasonable person think? They're walking over to have a chat about who to vote for in the election?
 
At five to 2 (one)
I would have retreated at the first sign of trouble,not said, hey you're rude...

as for the fear of life and limb, yeah that pretty much got covered at the "lets rape her" part.
 
The first mistake was when the husband (if I read the article correctly) heard the group say they should rape his wife while she was going in to use the restroom. If I heard this The first direction I would go would be directly at my wife telling her to get in the car NOW! I would not have approached the group at anytime, forget chivalry, ego, machismo or whatever, this kind of situation distance is your best friend.

The second mistake was that he should have personally called the police or had the clerk call when he heard the comment. Telling the cops you've got a group of thugs making threats of sexual assault toward your wife would put you in good standing if and when you had to defend yourself.

Also don't assume that the group wasn't armed as well. If you were to pull your gun you may end up in a 5 to 1 gunfight instead of a 5 to 1 fistfight. You'd be better off using discretion instead of valor unless given no other choice.
 
This is why I allways carry, and I would have gone with Glockurai's response. In the early morning 3 or more men approaching a car at a gas station are probably up to no good. Draw your weapon advise them to back off and leave as soon as possible.
 
Be very aware when pulling in to the parking lot, pull in slowly, scanning for any persons or conditions which might be cues to situations one would prefer to avoid.


If all seems well, once parked, pause for a little bit, relax, be alert look around some more...daubtle a little bit.


Then, if all seems alright, "then" get out of the Car, locking it, keys in hand, and proceed to enter the store.

Park strategically when possible, anticipating a possible need for a timely exit.


If anything in the Store seems 'off' or 'sketchy' or offers cues to a possible situation one would prefer to avoid, leave instantly, and casually.


Observing these points may well have saved that couple their troubles.
Click to expand...

Good advice all around Oyeboten, I think the couple may have been left alone if the husband hadn't approached the group.

He may have thought his actions were harmless, he said he didn't disrespect them or become aggressive with them but you do not walk up on a group at any time and tell them their actions are inappropriate.

I guess it was a bit of a shock when they didn't stop and look off thoughtfully rubbing their chins and take into consideration the husbands advice and then appologize for their actions. I have a hard time believing the husband could have thought any good would have come from confronting them. When the husband made his request he unknowingly challenged the group or a member of the group, and the following beating was the end result.
 
But if you're gonna have to be at a gas station or convenience store at 2.45am be armed.

Exactly.
 
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