Attempt at Shooting Restriction From Another Direction

[Speedo66]

This article shows an attempt by other users of federal and state public land to restrict the rights of shooters on the lands. While the article doesn't overtly push in one direction, there are more interviews with the antis, and just the fact it's front page news is telling. Throw in buzz words like "endangering Indian petroglyphs" and a certain segment of the population will be sure to pick up on this and find a new cause to rally behind.

There's also mention made of the amount of refuse left behind, and that's one aspect I can get behind. They coin it "trigger trash", nice catch phrase for the antis. You brought it, you shot it, take it back out with you. Don't make a dumping ground of public land, or any land for that matter, that's not yours. I'm personally disgusted by finding trash left over by anyone when I'm out, shooters included.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/u...t-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

[SuperNaut]

I live in Utah and avoid that area like the plague, idiots and trash everywhere.

I am 100% in support these areas being temporarily shut down, this is a case of us being our own worst enemy. Anti's are not to blame for this situation.

 

[Coyote3855]

Slob shooters are to blame for this. Within the last year, there was an incident in the National Forest west of Cheyenne. An errant round hit the vehicle of a couple driving on a Forest Service road. Couple years before that, target shooters killed a rancher's yearling steer. Obviously intentional. The informal range is always littered with all sorts of trash from old television sets to broken glass.

As with many situations, a few jerks ruin the situation for everyone.

 

[Baldman]

I read this article this morning and my first thought was what type of idiot does this. This is what happens when irresponsible shooters / gun owners give all of us a self inflicted black eye. Leaving trash and not policing your brass is one thing that you just don't do, but not following the four basic rules is just a recipe for disaster. This type of things is what the anti-gun forces grab a hold of and promote as much as they and we only have out own brethren to blame. I guess it does prove that some people just don't have the maturity and responsibility to own anything that can be dangerous.

 

[tarosean]

Anti's are not to blame for this situation.

100% Correct.

Its sickening to see some beautiful pieces of land littered with shot up appliances, trash, etc.

 

[psyopspec]

Throw in buzz words like "endangering Indian petroglyphs" and a certain segment of the population will be sure to pick up on this and find a new cause to rally behind.

With respect, that actually happened, as did the death of a camper. It is a matter of fact and not a buzzword. Please stop confusing the two.

I've also had bullets go overhead on BLM land in CO and AZ while hiking, rounds fired by reckless shooters. I'm in agreement with the article that those who can't "know their target and what is beyond it" have no business shooting on public land. Call me pro-gun control if you wish, but I and mine don't need to die for the sake of idiots who endanger others, trash the land, and destroy relics of native American history.

 

[JSH1]

Nothing like hiking to see some petroglyphs only to find some idiot has decided to use them as target practice. Been there done that.

As others has said, we are our own worst enemies here. Trash, dangerous behavior, and wanton destruction. Yes, only a minority of gun owners act this way but they are our public face.

 

[Furncliff]

I've made it my personal mission to keep my favorite slice of BLM land free of trash. I have a dedicated trash bag in the bed of my truck and stop to pick up anything and everything I find. I had to get some help with the giant couch and a king size mattress but it's easy to do now that the heavy lifting is done.

If you are a member of a sports club of any kind cleaning up is a great group activity.

Some folks just had poor parenting, those of us who value the national treasure that is our open lands need to get out front on this trash thing. It's easier and faster to pick it up than b---- about it.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Antis also did not invent the term "trigger trash" and I see far too much of it when I am "out there".

Mike

 

[jeff-10]

I'm from Miami, born in the 1970s. When I was very small we would go out to the western edge of the county, to vacant land probably owned by sugar companies, ranchers, Indian Reservations or the government and shoot at will. I have memories of red shotgun hulls and shot out washing machines being everywhere on the edges of the Glades. Especially on the banks of the canals. Back then in South Florida, canals were our backstops.

I also remember when I was 12 or so and me and my father were shooting near the Everglades and a Miami-Dade deputy pulled up next to us and told us it was no longer allowed, not that it was probably ever allowed in the first place. Even then I figured that was probably a good idea because it was just so ridiculously dangerous to be out there shooting. My father basically stopped shooting for 15 years because the idea of a public range was foreign to him. After spending time in the Army, I could never imagine shooting in an environment like that again. I would be a nervous wreck the whole time.

I much prefer a to shoot with range officers but then I live in Florida and we have a very dense population and it is flat. I shoot at the range in the Ocala National Forest sometimes and it does not have any ROs. I try to get out of there by 9am, when all the people start showing up.

 

[200Apples]

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psyopspec

I'm in agreement with the article that those who can't "know their target and what is beyond it" have no business shooting on public land. Call me pro-gun control if you wish, but I and mine don't need to die for the sake of idiots who endanger others, trash the land, and destroy relics of native American history.

Furncliff

Some folks just had poor parenting, those of us who value the national treasure that is our open lands need to get out front on this trash thing. It's easier and faster to pick it up than b---- about it.

Agreed.

 

[alsaqr]

It's easier and faster to pick it up than b---- about it.

Agreed 2.

Slob shooters are unlikely to change their trashy ways. We who value our outdoor experience need to pick up the slack and the trash.

 

[medalguy]

I'm a regular shooter on BLM land near Albuquerque and I have been seeing tremendous quantities of trash shot up and left on the ground by slob shooters. I and a friend tried for a few years to clean up the trash, but if we did a decent job of that, we would have no time for shooting. It seems there has been a big increase in glass bottles, computer hard drives, TVs, hot water heaters, and the like lately.

I don't know what the answer is, other than slob education. I rarely see a BLM ranger but wish there were a lot more of them writing tickets. If this continues very long, undoubtedly we will see some kinds of restrictions on our shooting freedoms.

 

[mgmorden]

Maybe its different out west, but this is already the case here. Except for some small public ranges setup you can't just go shoot on public land. You can HUNT on public land (in season), but not just go shooting. I join a private range to shoot (runs ~$100 per year, but it beats those public ranges by a long shot).

 

[psyopspec]

It's easier and faster to pick it up than b---- about it.

1) The two aren't mutually exclusive.

2) Obviously, the rate of picking up the litter isn't keeping pace with the generating of it.

3) Because of #2 above, we either need to police ourselves as a community by making it clear to other shooters that what they're doing is disingenuous; or,

4) Wait for the federal government to police us.

Thanks to anyone who has ever packed out more than they carried in. That's important, and it's doing the right thing when no one is watching, which is the highest integrity. But also important is calling out idiocy where it is, and certainly not being tacitly defensive of the behavior by regarding it as "shooting restriction from another direction."

 

[Coyote3855]

1) The two aren't mutually exclusive.

2) Obviously, the rate of picking up the litter isn't keeping pace with the generating of it.

3) Because of #2 above, we either need to police ourselves as a community by making it clear to other shooters that what they're doing is disingenuous; or,

4) Wait for the federal government to police us.

Thanks to anyone who has ever packed out more than they carried in. That's important, and it's doing the right thing when no one is watching, which is the highest integrity. But also important is calling out idiocy where it is, and certainly not being tacitly defensive of the behavior by regarding it as "shooting restriction from another direction."

It's not only shooting areas, but also camping and day use areas in the National Forest. I always take a couple of heavy duty trash bags when we go fishing and usually haul them out full of broken beer bottles, half burned trash in fire pits, and an amazing variety of other junk. I've actually hauled out two tents still in the boxes, wet sleeping bags, air mattresses and pads, etc. I could fill a pickup truck every week with the junk left at the shooting area closest to my house. And some of it would be too awkward or heavy for me to lift by myself.

 

[danez71]

The Off-Roading crowd has gone thru this already. Possibly the shooting crowd should learn from them.

They developed and promoted Tread Lightly and Pack It In - Pack It Out.


Moab Utah was nearly shut down for good because of the all the 'trash' - By 'trash', I'm referring to the people that litter and generally ruin mother nature with their behavior. Lytle Creek in So.CA. is another example (mostly caused by shooters in this case)


I remember a couple fights breaking out at some events because people starting standing up and speaking out against the 'trash'.


I don't do much off-roading anymore.... mostly fire service roads etc. But when we stop to have a picnic or do a little hiking, I generally am able to easily fill a trash bag full and take it out with me whether its mine or not.

The off-roading crowd started organizing "clean-ups" and worked with the govt to supply big dumpsters.

They were puling out all kinds of crud, burnt out cars, boats with their winches. Tires, washer/dryers... everything you can image.

It save the govt a ton of resources and brought the off-road community together.

In the example of Lytle Creek, that place turned into a dump with bullets flying over peoples heads.

It was shut down and then with cooperation of both the shooters and the govt, was cleaned up and turned into a public shooting range that's staffed and monitored.


ETA: MODS, perhaps this is better suited for Activism.