1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
As some of you know, I acquired a pair of Norincos to call my own a while back. One had some mileage and one was pretty much ANIB. Both are
pretty typical of the average Nork...A bit rough around the edges, but completely serviceable. One had a sear that I wasn't comfortable with, so I replaced that right off the bat. Both guns were dead reliable and gave
what I consider to be acceptable UTYAIA accuracy...in the neighborhood
of fist-sized groups at 25 yards from the bags with good ammo...though dispersion got wider as ammunition quality fell off. An old lot of 230
Hydra-Shok produced the best groups thus far. Okay...but nothin' to write home about. While I'm not overly concerned with ragged, one-holers
from a "Boondocks Pistol" I do like to see a bit better results if it's
doable without sacrificing reliability. Headspacing on typical Norincos
tends to be a bit more than I like, and fore/aft play within the slide runs to
as much as .010 inch...which accelerates wear and battering of the lugs
when the gun is fired due to slap-seating repeatedly.
So...I decided to upgrade the guns as easily as possible without getting wrapped up in hard fitting a match-grade barrel. Time is at a premium
these days for me...so I opted to go with Springfield's excellent stainless
drop-in "service" barrels. I discovered some time back that these barrels (Part number PI3501) were a near-perfect drop-in fit for not only Springfield ordnance-spec guns, but Colts as well, including genuine
USGI pistols that had long ago lost any collectibility. Lockup was tight
and horizontal play in the slide was minimal. Headspacing in these guns
has been acceptable, if a litle more than I like to see. They wouldn't go to battery on a NO GO, but usually would on my homemade .910 "Field"
gauge. Okay, but...
I ordered a pair of the barrels...85 bucks a copy plus shipping. They come with a correct link, and have nicely done throats and crowns, though most are a little sharp at the top of the throat and require lightly breaking the corners. They're capable of producing very good accuracy with lead and jacketed bullets without reliability issues...or at least nothing that a little tweak can't resolve quickly.
When I went to install them for the cursory timing and initial function check...they wouldn't enter the slide on either gun. The hood was too long.
A quick-check with the caliper revealed that they came with a slightly longer hood than specs called for...and the GO gauge sat below flush
with the hood face by .012 inch average for the two. The width was also
slightly wider than the average factory barrel, and the clearance in both guns was fairly tight....for a drop-in barrel mated with a rough Norinco slide. The clearance was about .002 inch per side.
I had a few of MGW's excellent drop-in bushings on hand, and they
were so thight in the slide bores that they had to be lapped in order to get'em to turn.
The barrels also have a slightly larger than typical flare at the muzzle,
and had .001-inch clearance between barrel OD and bushing ID, and the
bushings had to be clearanced a little to allow free link-down, though there was no springing evident when pressed into the slide.
I filed the hood to fit within the slide to the point of just allowing vertical lockup, and set my typical (initial) hood to breechface clearance so that the gun would just barely allow the slide to go to battery on the barrel. At this point, the working headspace was checked with the .898 GO gauge,
and a .003 feeler gauge between the GO gauge and breechface wouldn't quite allow the guns to go into battery without some force. I'd judge the
working headspace to be dead on at .900 inch...Perfect...and there was
no discernible horizontal barrel play in the slide with the gauge removed.
Marking the locking lugs showed that all the lugs' thrust faces were engaging to some degree, and I decided to see if they would equalize
with some low-end proof rounds.
I assembled 10 rounds with 250-grain SWCs loaded to about 850 fps, and fired one round at a time, checking with feeler gauges on the GO
gauge after each round. Both guns equalized the lug engagement after three or four rounds to allow the return to battery easily without forcing. A check with the shims allowed the guns to go into battery on a .001 gauge with a little force...but not on the .002 gauge. An additional 50 rounds of hardball equivalent per gun was fired, and the clearances rechecked. Nothing had changed, and the lugs were fully equalized and bearing their share of the thrust load.
The guns were cleaned and three 5-shot groups were fired from the bags
at 25 yards....throwing away the first shot to eliminate the flyer. The difference was astounding. Both guns shot groups with PMC ball that
were hovering just above the 2-inch mark...or about twice as good as they
previously did with Hydra-Shok. (4.5 inch average) Interestingly enough,
Hydra-Shok didn't better the PMC groups by a lot, coming in at a tick under 2 inches. Re-testing to allow the first shot flyer didn't make a lot of difference, with the flyer opening the groups up only a quarter-inch on average with both types of ammo....and always high.
This little discovery has been evident in three different Norincos with a fairly wqide space between serial numbers...though only two have been test-fired. The third belongs to one of the forum moderators, and as soon as I get a go-ahead from him, I'll order another barrel and see if the results are the same. If they are, I plan to call back a dozen or so of the Norincos that I've checked out and see if another virgin Springfield barrel fits the slides in like fashion...or won't without light fitting, as the case may be.
So, keep your fingers crossed Nork fans...This may prove to be the hot
fix for a pistol with a sloppy barrel fit and mediocre accuracy...AND...one that can be done with a smooth mill file, a gauge set, and a set of small automotive feeler gauges.
Cheers all!
pretty typical of the average Nork...A bit rough around the edges, but completely serviceable. One had a sear that I wasn't comfortable with, so I replaced that right off the bat. Both guns were dead reliable and gave
what I consider to be acceptable UTYAIA accuracy...in the neighborhood
of fist-sized groups at 25 yards from the bags with good ammo...though dispersion got wider as ammunition quality fell off. An old lot of 230
Hydra-Shok produced the best groups thus far. Okay...but nothin' to write home about. While I'm not overly concerned with ragged, one-holers
from a "Boondocks Pistol" I do like to see a bit better results if it's
doable without sacrificing reliability. Headspacing on typical Norincos
tends to be a bit more than I like, and fore/aft play within the slide runs to
as much as .010 inch...which accelerates wear and battering of the lugs
when the gun is fired due to slap-seating repeatedly.
So...I decided to upgrade the guns as easily as possible without getting wrapped up in hard fitting a match-grade barrel. Time is at a premium
these days for me...so I opted to go with Springfield's excellent stainless
drop-in "service" barrels. I discovered some time back that these barrels (Part number PI3501) were a near-perfect drop-in fit for not only Springfield ordnance-spec guns, but Colts as well, including genuine
USGI pistols that had long ago lost any collectibility. Lockup was tight
and horizontal play in the slide was minimal. Headspacing in these guns
has been acceptable, if a litle more than I like to see. They wouldn't go to battery on a NO GO, but usually would on my homemade .910 "Field"
gauge. Okay, but...
I ordered a pair of the barrels...85 bucks a copy plus shipping. They come with a correct link, and have nicely done throats and crowns, though most are a little sharp at the top of the throat and require lightly breaking the corners. They're capable of producing very good accuracy with lead and jacketed bullets without reliability issues...or at least nothing that a little tweak can't resolve quickly.
When I went to install them for the cursory timing and initial function check...they wouldn't enter the slide on either gun. The hood was too long.
A quick-check with the caliper revealed that they came with a slightly longer hood than specs called for...and the GO gauge sat below flush
with the hood face by .012 inch average for the two. The width was also
slightly wider than the average factory barrel, and the clearance in both guns was fairly tight....for a drop-in barrel mated with a rough Norinco slide. The clearance was about .002 inch per side.
I had a few of MGW's excellent drop-in bushings on hand, and they
were so thight in the slide bores that they had to be lapped in order to get'em to turn.
The barrels also have a slightly larger than typical flare at the muzzle,
and had .001-inch clearance between barrel OD and bushing ID, and the
bushings had to be clearanced a little to allow free link-down, though there was no springing evident when pressed into the slide.
I filed the hood to fit within the slide to the point of just allowing vertical lockup, and set my typical (initial) hood to breechface clearance so that the gun would just barely allow the slide to go to battery on the barrel. At this point, the working headspace was checked with the .898 GO gauge,
and a .003 feeler gauge between the GO gauge and breechface wouldn't quite allow the guns to go into battery without some force. I'd judge the
working headspace to be dead on at .900 inch...Perfect...and there was
no discernible horizontal barrel play in the slide with the gauge removed.
Marking the locking lugs showed that all the lugs' thrust faces were engaging to some degree, and I decided to see if they would equalize
with some low-end proof rounds.
I assembled 10 rounds with 250-grain SWCs loaded to about 850 fps, and fired one round at a time, checking with feeler gauges on the GO
gauge after each round. Both guns equalized the lug engagement after three or four rounds to allow the return to battery easily without forcing. A check with the shims allowed the guns to go into battery on a .001 gauge with a little force...but not on the .002 gauge. An additional 50 rounds of hardball equivalent per gun was fired, and the clearances rechecked. Nothing had changed, and the lugs were fully equalized and bearing their share of the thrust load.
The guns were cleaned and three 5-shot groups were fired from the bags
at 25 yards....throwing away the first shot to eliminate the flyer. The difference was astounding. Both guns shot groups with PMC ball that
were hovering just above the 2-inch mark...or about twice as good as they
previously did with Hydra-Shok. (4.5 inch average) Interestingly enough,
Hydra-Shok didn't better the PMC groups by a lot, coming in at a tick under 2 inches. Re-testing to allow the first shot flyer didn't make a lot of difference, with the flyer opening the groups up only a quarter-inch on average with both types of ammo....and always high.
This little discovery has been evident in three different Norincos with a fairly wqide space between serial numbers...though only two have been test-fired. The third belongs to one of the forum moderators, and as soon as I get a go-ahead from him, I'll order another barrel and see if the results are the same. If they are, I plan to call back a dozen or so of the Norincos that I've checked out and see if another virgin Springfield barrel fits the slides in like fashion...or won't without light fitting, as the case may be.
So, keep your fingers crossed Nork fans...This may prove to be the hot
fix for a pistol with a sloppy barrel fit and mediocre accuracy...AND...one that can be done with a smooth mill file, a gauge set, and a set of small automotive feeler gauges.
Cheers all!
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