Australian Politician Tries to Ban Any Distribution of 3D Printable Gun Models

[steve564]

This is an interesting story. An Australian politician named Carl Judge introduced a bill today which will make it illegal to upload and download any 3D model of a 3D printable gun to the internet.

the article: http://3dprint.com/4206/australia-bill-illegal-3d-print-gun/

What do you guys think, Will it pas? I don't see how it would really help anything. I mean anyone can use filesharing services without being tracked.

 

[MagnumDweeb]

They don't have a true 1st Amendment as I understand it. So it would probably pass legal muster over there. And to make it worse they could run setup operations to scare the public from downloading files by creating files with viruses attached to them that let Nazi/Soviet style elements in their government that the file is being kept on a computer, think Zombie Computers.

Information is freedom and governments like Australia and most of Europe don't a people that is truly free. Better to penalize and imprison folks who aren't drug dealers, murderers, child molesters, rapists, human traffickers, than actually focus resources on attacking those issues. Sort of how our federal government is going here it seems, along with a few states.

 

[Tirod]

Feel good legislation to make it look as if something is being done is passed into law all the time.

The real issue is that 3D printing is far from an economical method of making a firearm, and that making a firearm in the US is perfectly legal anyway. What the anti gunners are doing is using this as a platform to ban home construction of firearms by a back door route.

A coworker built his own printer, and by projects and measurement, it's not precise enough to hold normal tolerances to make anything of working value. He has sunk over $1000 in the printer alone, much less the computer, etc driving it. And plans for a working firearm are actually scarce - plus, it only prints in plastic. A real gun out of metal has to use equipment valued in the millions of dollars, which is exactly what the guys who made the 1911 were trying to point out - it's not a hobby project, bring us your really difficult parts that cannot be machined. We can print them and make them reality.

For the cost of a 3D printer, you could likely build two AR15's and they would both fire over 50,000 rounds without ever needing more than a little lube and wipedown. While there is a lot of interest in this fad, it's far from realistic to even consider for our own use. It's like trying to get a $50 satellite Tracphone - we're nowhere near that yet.

Outlawing 3D printing is a lot like outlawing Glocks when they first came out. It's agenda driven, the politicians are using it far more than it's really worth.

 

[RussellC]

I have never been to the land down under, but I understand it is a mess with regard to gun ownership. My understanding, and please school me if I am misstating, but I believe gun ownership is all but totally prohibited. I have also been told that lots of gangs have refused to give theirs up, and are causing havoc with the unarmed citizenary. Sort of sounds like mad max come to life.

Is this indeed the case in the land of OZ? I certainly hope not. This post about 3-d guns seems to back up my unschooled opinion?

Russellc

 

[hso]

An expert on Australian law and constitution will have to give us a reliable opinion, but I see nothing about freedom of speech or press in the Australian constitution or conventions or interpretations (freedom of political speech, yes, but not common speech).

 

[Leth]

G'Day RussellC. I'm an Aussie living in the US, so I can give you some additional info. There is firearm ownership in Oz, but without a 2nd Amendment it is treated as a privilege and not a right.

It is very heavily controlled by the government, with not only each owner needing to be licensed, but also each firearm that owner has. Because of this, each time a new law is passed banning a new type of firearm (there have been two separate occurrences of this over the past 20 years) the police know who the legal owners of the newly banned firarms are, and pay them a visit if the firearms are not surrendered.

A reason needs to be given to the police as to why a firearm needs to be purchased, and self defense is not considered a valid reason. Hunting, vermin control and competitive shooting are the only valid reasons.

Since there is no concept of legal self-manufacture of firearms, such a law could be put in the books and in concept is already there. This bill would only specifically cite 3D printing as a means of manufacture. It's very much a PR ploy to be seen to be responding to a non-existant issue.

If you don't want this kind of policy here in the US, make sure you support groups such as the NRA, even if you don't agree with all their policies. There are groups here who would LOVE to implement the same cr@p.

Cheers!

 

[MachIVshooter]

A real gun out of metal has to use equipment valued in the millions of dollars

Not at all. One can pick up a pretty nice used 4-axis CNC machining centers with ATC for under $20K, which would be more than capable of turning out everything but the barrel. Fadal, Haas, Matsuura, Hardinge-there are many.

 

[pikid89]

They are referring to the company, Solid Concepts, that made a metal 1911 out of a 3d printer that laser sinters stainless steel. That machine is worth millions.

http://www.solidconcepts.com/news-r...rinted-metal-gun-manufactured-solid-concepts/

 

[rs7]

Vermin control. I like that one.

 

[RussellC]

G'Day RussellC. I'm an Aussie living in the US, so I can give you some additional info. There is firearm ownership in Oz, but without a 2nd Amendment it is treated as a privilege and not a right.

It is very heavily controlled by the government, with not only each owner needing to be licensed, but also each firearm that owner has. Because of this, each time a new law is passed banning a new type of firearm (there have been two separate occurrences of this over the past 20 years) the police know who the legal owners of the newly banned firarms are, and pay them a visit if the firearms are not surrendered.

A reason needs to be given to the police as to why a firearm needs to be purchased, and self defense is not considered a valid reason. Hunting, vermin control and competitive shooting are the only valid reasons.

Since there is no concept of legal self-manufacture of firearms, such a law could be put in the books and in concept is already there. This bill would only specifically cite 3D printing as a means of manufacture. It's very much a PR ploy to be seen to be responding to a non-existant issue.

If you don't want this kind of policy here in the US, make sure you support groups such as the NRA, even if you don't agree with all their policies. There are groups here who would LOVE to implement the same cr@p.

Cheers!

Leth, thankyou for the information. Wow, it would seem that as wide open as that land is, firearms would be a normal way of life. I fear this Country, or some in it, would like to gravitate to this end game here. I am ashamed to say I havent got around to joining the NRA and will remedy this NOW.

Thanks again for the schooling on this topic.

Russellc

 

[B!ngo]

It's about the dumbest idea I've ever heard. Not that being concerned about printable weapons isn't a an issue but trying to stop these technological forces is absurd. Whether it was prohibition or the war on drugs, trying to enforce behavior versus educating the public is a lost cause and damaging to society. Technology is changing so rapidly that legislation to stop it is always going to be shouting from behind.
B

 

[Leth]

I havent got around to joining the NRA and will remedy this NOW.

Awesome RussellC - Great to hear!

Yeah, it was frustrating during the time the first big bans were being planned. We had a large number of shooters in Australia, but no single organization with enough members to represent and push back.

A lot of anger was caused by how obvious it was the new laws were made by politicians who knew nothing about firearms.

"Wait - I can have a pump action 30-06 rifle but not a pump action shotgun?!"

Same deal with the 3D issue. They have no clue...
Cheers!

 

[MachIVshooter]

They are referring to the company, Solid Concepts, that made a metal 1911 out of a 3d printer that laser sinters stainless steel. That machine is worth millions.

I get that the discussion is centered around 3D printers, and I'm well aware of what the PM sintering machines cost.

But:

A real gun out of metal has to use equipment valued in the millions of dollars

is a statement that does not preclude other manufacturing processes, and while sintering, forging or casting equipment capable of producing finished or nearly finished gun parts is prohibitively expensive, a 4 axis VMC that could be operated by a desk jockey with no prior machining experience after just a little bit of instruction is not out of reach.

If one is capable of operating a manual mill, you could be rockin' and rollin' for a couple grand in a used Bridgeport and some eBay scores for cutters. Lots of manufacturers turn loose quality cutters that are slightly out of spec for peanuts. It's more economical for them to just replace cutters than re-write the CAM files, but for those of us running a manual mill, a .0025" undersized cutter doesn't matter one lick. I scored a lot of 42 Weldon cutters from .065 to 13/16" for $1.10/ea shipped. A few were dull or chipped, but most were in excellent shape.

I've turned out gun parts even on my little bench top mill, a full manual unit with just a tilt-swivel machine vise and 3-axis DRO.

 

[DT Guy]

For the millionth time, I send a silent 'Thank you!' to our Founding Fathers for their foresight, bravery and wisdom.


Too bad Australia had lesser men write their laws....





Larry

 

[kwguy]

For the millionth time, I send a silent 'Thank you!' to our Founding Fathers for their foresight, bravery and wisdom.

We'll said.

 

[jerkface11]

Even if it passes the legal muster over there it doesn't sound enforceable.

 

[rdhood]

Is distribution of child porn ( including on the internet) outlawed in Australia? How's that going for them?