Author Query

[danbaum]

Well, gentlemen and ladies, thank you for your input. It was slightly less nasty than on other forums. And you honor me by looking up my past writing.

The "Klingons" comment seems to draw a lot of fire. Remember I write for people unfamiliar with guns. Black rifles are high-tech; that's the attraction. To someone unfamiliar with firearms, they look space age. As for the .223 not being good for hunting; that's what a lot of people tell me. Fine for prairie dogs and coyotes -- most often described to me as varmint shooting, not really "hunting" -- and not suitable for deer. Some states don't even permit them for deer. I certainly mean no disrespect to the .223.

The condescending tone, well, we all see what we see. I write what I see. Remember, I'm an airy-fairy liberal Socialist, so I'm going to see, and react to, different things at gun shows than you might.

Finally, there's this: I hear constantly from gun enthusiasts how angry they are that the liberal media, and the liberal elites, don't care about guns and gun people, don't know anything about guns or gun people, and never bother to learn anything about guns and gun people.

I come under a white flag, making a small, clumsy attempt to begin to correct that. I am ignorant; I admit that. I have much to learn; I admit that. I have ideas that are different from yours; I admit that. But where would you send me to learn? To the Brady Center?

 

[Dnaltrop]

While many of us would indeed be fascinated at the sort of mentality that the Packrats with Backhoes have, Invariably the most visible "weirdos" become the brush that tars every gun owner.

If that's really what you're looking for, be honest. Just consider that most of us don't walk around in load bearing vests, carrying automatic weapons to the 7-11.

If you want a real story, go down to Texas and visit Flintknapper (if he'll have you) while he controls the local Feral Hog population. Check the first stickied thread in the hunting section.

He uses an up-calibered AR platform to fight a porcine plague, AND makes his own arrowheads.


Remember, we aren't just Gun owners. We're your Neighbors.

 

[Zundfolge]

Dan, you have to realize that you're not the first self described liberal/leftist/progressive to come here claiming they're pro gun but still liberal.

We've been burned before so its hard to take you at your word that your intentions are honorable.

Hang around a bit ... look around the forum (especially the technical forms) and you'll learn things about guns and about those of us that own them.

You'll also probably find a handful of other "airy-fairy liberal Socialists" around here too.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Remember I write for people unfamiliar with guns.

So continuing to repeat the gun control rhetoric is OK, then?

But where would you send me to learn?

Something I learned a long time ago from my dad; "You can't learn anything with your mouth open."

You've come here to preach your "liberals and free people can live together" sermon.

We're not buying it. It probably sells in Boulder. It won't here.

 

[hso]

Dan,

The problem is that your claim that you're a seeker after truth is tainted by your own prejudicial writing so you have to expect a great deal of skepticism from the vast majority of firearms forum members. For now you'll be viewed with the same suspicion that Johnny Lee Clary was before his conversion and it is your responsibility to earn the trust of gun owners and RKBA advocates.

We hope you get the opportunity to learn something more about firearms (many states like Oregon, Tennessee and even California do allow .223 to be used in hunting while others don't) and firearms owners (only a very few want to burry firearms for future calamity).

 

[Hurricane]

If you really wanted to learn, why not simply ask everyone to tell why they love firearms, what they love about them, what are the unique draws that make it so encompassing for them.

You would get a hundred replies of genuine honesty, each person gladly talking high of their hobby and interest. Then you could use that to contrast the typical gun toting hick image you found prevalent at your show.

I would suggest try that approach.

More flies with honey and whatnot.

 

[danez71]

Skeptical.... but agree with the few that this could be an opportunity.

IMO, he's risking a lot by publicly proclaiming to be ignorant and open minded. If he proves to be misleading, he risks all future openness with one of, if not the, largest special interest group

I did not vote Obama.... I don't think he's doing a "good" job. But I also think he gets persecuted unfairly at times just like Bush did and every other past and future President.


While I'm not one that buries guns or carries three in the shower or hoards 60 months of dry/can food.... I would be open to further questions.

Id like to see where you're going with this and how honorable are your intentions. I'd be able to tell after just a few minutes or e-mail exchanges and be happy to report back to the forum.

 

[4v50 Gary]

One type of gun enthusiast who is frequently ridiculed and reviled is he who feels it prudent to prepare for calamity by burying firearms. I would very much like to interview such a person, and, understanding that revealing oneself to be a gun-burier negates the point of burying guns, I would disguise this person's location and identity completely.

Sorry DanBaum, but I don't fit that category. I haven't buried anything. First, I don't see a need. Second, I don't have much land and what little I have is mostly bedrock.

I concede there is a need to prepare for calamity. Most folks call it disaster planning and it's mitigation steps because one .gov may not be able to reach you. Most large fire departments offer that type of training to ensure that its community is as self-sufficient as possible. Now, as to the owning of guns, I fought in the King Riots and have seen normal people gone berserk because of the anonymity granted by the presence of the crowd. I think having firearms and knowing how to use them is integral to that disaster planning.

 

[Bullnettles]

Can I be first? I love my guns because first and foremost, they help keep my home, myself, and people I care about, safe. Second, I was a big fan of Legos as a kid and nothing beats the pride you get when you put together a fully-functioning AR. It's a hobby that keeps my mild ADD in check. Lastly and firstly, it keeps me safe. Where I work, I can't imagine not carrying. When the criminals don't care about gun laws, I have to be ready for the unexpected. There was a shooting less than a mile from my current job, now my boss carries. He's for me carrying at work because of the area.

223 isn't allowed in some states, but that doesn't mean it can't take a deer with a well placed shot. All relative, and I'm not one for wounded animals, but I know people who hunt with a 223 successfully. Let's not forget the hogs haven't been tearing up my dad's land near as much anymore.

Keep an open mind. I strayed a bit in college, but now that I'm in the real world, not one of theories, I see that most right-wing ideals have merit. I cannot understand why one would want Socialism, but this is not the debate. I pray you have an open-mind if you are truly here to learn. If not, well, then you are a liar and I'll be saddened I wasted my time typing this.

 

[Dimis]

The "Klingons" comment seems to draw a lot of fire. Remember I write for people unfamiliar with guns. Black rifles are high-tech; that's the attraction. To someone unfamiliar with firearms, they look space age.

Why not tell them the truth?

It is a semi-automatic sporting arm used for various purposes from target shooting to varmint hunting.

Instead the choice of words makes us sound odd or "from another planet".

It was "high tech" back in the 60s when it was made; that dog don't hunt here no more.

Imagine if you were afraid to drive and someone told you the new Honda Civic was spooky and scary and no "normal" person would drive it because its too space age and high tech. Would you buy a Civic to learn to drive?

Now if you were told the truth about the Civic you would understand that it is a completely safe and very reasonable car to learn driving in and thats the end of it. It's not evil, it's not scary its not even unsafe as long as used properly and respected.

As for the .223 not being good for hunting; that's what a lot of people tell me. Fine for prairie dogs and coyotes -- most often described to me as varmint shooting, not really "hunting" -- and not suitable for deer. Some states don't even permit them for deer. I certainly mean no disrespect to the .223.

Are these sources professional?
Are these sources accredited?
Are these sources viable and logical?
Or are these just others from liberal media?

In a way you are correct about SOME things.

.223 is not legal in all 50 states to hunt large game with but neither is .22LR and many other calibers. In my home state its not even an option to hunt with a rifle at all.

But skewing the facts and claiming its a man killer is just wrong.

Again I will refer to cars. When I got my permit my parents warned me "son, a vehicle can be a weapon".

But really what they meant was if not used properly it can hurt or kill someone even you. In the end the person behind the wheel is the problem not the vehicle. If you choose to break the law and you are responsible for your actions. Buying a car is not regulated by anything other than being able to afford one.

Yet thousands, if not millions, of people a year break the law and speed or drive recklessly or DRUNK or even kill both intentionally and unintentionally.

In the end cars and guns are simply tools nothing more.

The condescending tone, well, we all see what we see. I write what I see. Remember, I'm an airy-fairy liberal Socialist, so I'm going to see, and react to, different things at gun shows than you might.

True we all tend to be biased in our own way.

Honestly, though, I believe that journalists should at least attempt to be impartial and it seems now most don't even try.

Just my advice and my opinion but if YOU try to change that you will make a lot more headway here. Integrity is everything once you've lost yours you have nothing. From where I sit the integral thing to do is attempt to be as impartial as possible.

"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too."
~Voltaire
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
~Unknown source attributed to Voltaire

Finally, there's this: I hear constantly from gun enthusiasts how angry they are that the liberal media, and the liberal elites, don't care about guns and gun people, don't know anything about guns or gun people, and never bother to learn anything about guns and gun people. I come under a white flag, making a small, clumsy attempt to begin to correct that. I am ignorant; I admit that. I have much to learn; I admit that. I have ideas that are different from yours; I admit that. But where would you send me to learn? To the Brady Center?

You go to the proper place (which you did)
You be courteous and respectful (which you attempted)
But gaining trust wont be easy with your proven history in writing.

Imagine being the guy on a Suzuki sport bike trying to walk into a Harley Davidson bar.
It isn't easily done but it can be done.

When all is said and done cross reference EVERYTHING on both sides.
Take from it what you will.

And in the end...

"To thine own self be true."

 

[Tim the student]

Oh, where to start? So many things to say and address, but I don't feel like I have the patience now.

I subscribe to Harpers. I read your article.

Suffice it to say that I was not impressed with that piece.

This thread may give you some insights.

FWIW, stereotypes seldom seem to serve anyone as well as they think they do.

 

[BullfrogKen]

For now you'll be viewed with the same suspicion that Johnny Lee Clary was before his conversion and it is your responsibility to earn the trust of gun owners and RKBA advocates.

I agree.


I frequently work with my local media outlets, doing interviews or helping a reporter on assignment to understand why we might oppose a proposed/existing law.

I wouldn't work with you. The reason is simple.

Based on a review of your mindset and views, I can't trust you.



Want to convince me? Correct this -

As for gun control -- the assault weapons ban, registration, the whole thing -- I used to be for them, almost reflexively. I've written in support of them. Since researching this book, and an article about concealed carry that I wrote for the August 2010 issue of Harper's, I've turned around about 175 degrees.

Come out and defend your new position on gun ownership with the same fervor with which you once maligned it.

Publicly and openly.
In the same venues.
In your own words, and with sincerity.


Afterwards I'd be willing to have a conversation with you. Until then, I can't trust you won't continue to pervert my position, and use my words to malign me.

 

[pmec]

Dan, the Brady Center is a good place to start. Look at what they say and then do some research to see if their statements are bogus. Look at the firing pin micro-stamping issues and see if that is bogus. Look at the lead bullet issues and see if that is bogus. If you do your research like I have done, you will come to the same conclusion that most of us here have.

 

[hso]

Ken has an excellent point.

If you've turned around ~175 degrees please explain how so and what your views are currently. Please remember that this is your opportunity to succinctly explain your current view of firearms, firearms owners and firearms ownership as well as your position on the failed assumptions behind "gun control". You've told us where you were on these issues in the past, but you've not actually explained where you are on them today.

 

[BullfrogKen]

That works for me. I'd like to see that response.


Why don't we all give this thread a 72 hour "cooling off period" if you will.


I hate having to crawl through pages and pages of replies to see the thread originator's response. This board is so big, and the position is so controversial, that it's going to get quite a few replies telling Dan where he can shove his interview request.


Can we all agree to give Dan the opportunity to respond with the story of how his views changed, and what they are now, before this thread grows unmanageable?

 

[KodiakBeer]

Dan, you don't even realize why you set people off, do you? Just the suggestion that a .223 isn't a proper deer round speaks volumes about how you're programmed by leftist dogma. This attitude suggests that the 2nd amendment is about deer hunting or that a firearm must have a legitimate (to liberals) "sporting use" to be allowed.

Firearms don't have to fill a need. Some firearms are merely for shooting beer cans. Others are owned for historical interest - look at the profusion of Enfields, Garands, Mausers, Mosin Nagants in private hands. Some are curiosities or elegant hand fitted pieces made in another time. AR's are usually owned by gadgeteers who simply admire the profusion of add-ons that can be adapted to such a modular weapon.

When all is said and done, we just like the challenge of picking up a gun and knocking down a tin can or placing a tight group in paper. It's not much different than golf really, except at the end of the day our hobby also protects our home better than a nine iron.

 

[yeti]

But where would you send me to learn? To the Brady Center?

Or, perhaps, the NRA?

And burying guns? I feel bad just having to lock them in the safe at night.

 

[TexasBill]

I've been on this forum for a while, though I am certainly no old-timer. I have never made any bones about the fact I voted for and still support the President (I don't agree with everything he does, but that's not unusual) and am liberal. As far as any move towards socialism goes, I invite anyone to visit the actual socialist websites and see what they think (mostly that President Obama is too conservative and yet another tool of the capitalist warmongers).

I have liked guns since I was a small boy. Instead of liquor, the first thing I bought upon turning 21 was a Colt Trooper Mk III. Many other guns have followed.

Your "designed by Klingons" remark apparently ruffled some feathers here but didn't bother me. Among my guns is a Beretta CX4 carbine that my son calls the "Halo" gun from the video game. I've seen comments about the CX4, FN PS-90 and FS2000 being "Space Marine" firearms. The Whitney Wolverine .22 pistol looks like it came right out of Buck Rogers.

As to the Second Amendment, I have never understood why there was a controversy. It is very clearly spelled out, if you have a decent command of English grammar. The first part, "A well-regulated militia..." is a dependent clause that requires the second part, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms..." to be valid before it can apply. The Founding Fathers, who had a rather good command of English, believed the right to keep and bear arms existed before the formation of the United States and wrote the Second Amendment, not to grant the right, but to guarantee it.

I don't bury my weapons and don't know anyone who does - Sorry; can't help you there. There are those who stockpile firearms and ammunition for whatever reason, SHTF or TEOTWAWKI; don't be condescending: they might be right. But I am a bit puzzled by what seems to be naivete: why would anyone who buries weapons, whether fearing Armageddon or the government, want to talk to you about it? If I'm that paranoid, I sure as heck am not going to share my secrets in a book!

The one thing I do share with my more conservative fellow THR members is a disdain for more gun control. The reasons are very simple: First, it doesn't work for the simple reason criminals, by definition, don't obey the law; second, it's time everyone accepted that Pandora's box has been opened and there is no closing it - the supply of firearms cannot be cut off by fiat or magic wishes; third, and most important, because there is no valid reason for a government of the people, by the people and for the people to disarm the people.

If you can come to grips with this, you might make some real headway in honestly communicating not only with the good folks here at THR, but with your future readers, as well.

 

[jfh]

I agree with the analysis and proposed update to the attitudinal change.

It sounds to me like that essay (forum post) would be a good 'core' for your future article to be published in Harper's, or New Yorker, or the NYTimes' Magazine.

Several of us here read those outlets regularly--so, inquiring minds want to know if you will give us a preview of your conversion story.

Jim H.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Bears Repeating

Every so often I see a phrasing that just . . . rings.

. . . and most important, because there is no valid reason for a government of the people, by the people and for the people to disarm the people. -- TexasBill

That'll look good in somebody's sig line.

 

[Justin]

But of course they're man-killers - that's what they were designed for, and that's what the hypothetical "well regulated militia" would use them for as well! I mean, if someone broke into my house, or the SHTF, I wouldn't be going quail hunting, would I?
And while this guy is way off base on hunting with .223, he pretty much summed up the Suncoast gun shows in Florida

Guns, or any other object, aren't required to have some sort of one true inherent purpose that overrides all other purposes.

Do I have any qualms about using an AR15 as a defensive weapon? Certainly not. But that no more makes any of my AR15s "man killers" than shooting them at a match makes them "paper killers" or "steel killers" or "high speed lead relocation devices."

Claiming that a gun is first and foremost a "man killer" is to imply that putting it to any other use is somehow incorrect, and furthermore, it maligns the person who owns it, implying that he or she is somehow an off-balance or murderous nut job.

Any legal or moral use an owner has for his rifle is just as equally valid as any other.

As for Dan, he's clearly never shot an AR15, is completely ignorant of the myriad applications they've been put to, including hunting animals from prairie dogs to medium game, that AR15s are now the dominant choice of precision competitive National Match and Service Rifle shooters, the overwhelming choice of competitors in practical shooting sports like USPSA multigun and 3Gun, are easy to learn to shoot and are a very newbie-friendly platform due to their inherent accuracy and low recoil.

Of course, had he actually gone out to do some reasonable field research, instead of just going to a gun show and doing his best to conflate AR15 owners with variably, racists, a violence-prone fictional species of space aliens, and overweight, ignorant wannabe revolutionaries, he may have figured that out on his own.

 

[Phydeaux642]

Something I learned a long time ago from my dad; "You can't learn anything with your mouth open."

Wise words.

If you really wanted to learn about the real firearm community, you should have stayed in the shadows and and just read the posts here on THR. You would find that most of us are just ordinary folks like you would find anywhere. We offer advice, we try to teach (okay, not me so much but guys like Old Fuff, hso, rcmodel, 1911Tuner, etc.) We'll cry with you when you need a shoulder, we'll joke around with you when you need a laugh. We'll tell you when you do something stupid and remind you to keep your nose clean.

There is a tremendous cross section of people here that get along better than most families do. Most of us would be the first to offer help if someone needed it and I know that many have. So, I think you may have missed a real opportunity here. Who knows, we may have even been able to swing you the other five degrees. My guess is that that was never going to happen, but you never know.

As for burying guns, are you nuts? I have way to much money invested in my hobby to start sticking them in the dirt.

 

[doc2rn]

I come under a white flag, making a small, clumsy attempt to begin to correct that. I am ignorant; I admit that. I have much to learn; I admit that. I have ideas that are different from yours; I admit that. But where would you send me to learn? To the Brady Center?

If I may, I was once a liberal Democrat, but I am also a veteran. I would invite you to go with me anytime (now that I have moved to Denver) to come to Cherry Creek with me. I have only been in Denver 6 weeks and the nicest people I have met are at the shooting range.
Weapon systems are tools and only as good as the people who use them. Feel free to PM me if you would like to know more.

 

[SuperNaut]

Maybe, just maybe, our intrepid author will realize that the "gun-burier" that he wishes to trot out for his readers to ogle is so rare as to be non-existent? Not a "type" after all, but yet another ephemeral strawman caricature?

Strangely I am certain that the article about "gun buriers" will be written whether or not an elusive example of the species shows itself.

 

[wishin]

Okay Dan, I'll take you up on your interview offer.

I buried a goodly number of guns and ammo at the North Korean side of the DMZ. Lets agree to meet there soon. If I'm not there, please shout "I'm the American here to find the guns", and wait for me!