Auto ordnance with slide stop problems among others.

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I took apart an Auto ordnance .45 ACP check out a few problems for a friend of mine. This is what I found. #1 Slide stop slops around like there is no tomorrow, I mean that the holes in the left and the right side of the frame is too large but they don't seem to be ovaled out just bigger and round. Friend says his slide stop goes out every 5000 rounds to 10,000 rounds and the last time 1000 rounds. Do they make a slide stop to fit? #2 Ejector immediately came off when I disassembled the weapon and upon further inspection the front vertical mounting pin has worn flat. #3 The trigger assembly metal that actually surrounds the magazine and makes its way to the sear spring is way too soft and actually bows out. This causes friction along both sides of the frame. This is one of the reasons why there is such a heavy trigger pull. I noticed heavy friction marks along both sides of the trigger assembly and the metal is so soft that I could easily bend and distort it with my fingers. #4 The disconnector is excessively worn. Imagine a screwdriver with the flat side of the blade in front of you and facing you, it is no where near square anymore, makes me think that someone was mucking with it. #5 Hammer and sear look like they were married for a thousand years and meant to be together, (no mucking with any angles here, they look way too good). I need to polish the sides of the sear because they are rubbing the sides of the frame edges could use a little stoning but not where they meet with the hammer. #6 Sear spring didn't look like any sear spring I ever seen ( I am talking the way that it is supposed to be bent)
Recoil Spring seems way too heavy for this government type .45 and I might wonder if it's this heavy spring that might have anything to do with slide stop problems. Help.

 

[Old Fuff]

Recoil Spring seems way too heavy for this government type .45 and I might wonder if it's this heavy spring that might have anything to do with slide stop problems.

You bet it could. Dingbats who put extra heavy recoil springs in the pistol forget that the slide moves two ways, and when it slams into battery the slide stop pin takes most of the shock, and this can batter and enlarge the hole in the frame. Run some drill blanks (or the shank end of drills) into the hole until you find one that will just fit. then measure it with a caliper and post what the size is. If this hole is really oversized you don't need to worry about the rest of the problems until the owner gets a new frame.

The pistol wasn't of the highest quality in the first place, and it looks to me like it's been battered to death.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Old Fuff The measurements are .205 thousands of an inch left side and .207/208 on the right, (ok I'm guessing because my .209 drill bit had slop and the .205 wouldn't fit). He purchased this pistol when he was twelve (with his dad's help) and it was his first. Paid 200 or so. Interesting guy West Point Grad, swam the hudson because he was going to be late coming home off of leave. (that's a big river!) He rocked tens of thousands of rounds through this thing through the years. I watched him shoot it yesterday. somewhat of a crackshot with a sig P220 in the bull but when it comes to this 1911 it shoots low 5 or 6 inches and left 8 inches at about 8 to 10 paces away.

 

[Old Fuff]

It helps to have the USGI blueprints...

The slide stop pin should be .2005" (-.0020"). The hole in the slide should be .201" - .203" (max.). As you can see the hole in the frame is out of Spec. and I'm not surprised.

The owner has two chocies. Retire the pistol and retain it as a keepsake, or buy a new frame, (and maybe a slide too) and rebuild it. It obviously should have a new trigger, ejector, recoil spring and disconector/with spring at a minimum. Other parts I'm not sure of, but keep in mind it wasn't a quality gun in the first place and the round-count is fantastic, considering what the pistol is. If you need more help continue to post.

Anybody that would swim the Hudson River just so he wouldn't be late is O.K. in my book...

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Roger that Old Fuff. You mean that the frame is done fer?

 

[Old Fuff]

You mean that the frame is done fer?

I would say so, although it might be possible to bore out, and then sleeve the hole(s). Perhaps you should consult with my colleague, “Dr. Tuner,” and get a second opinion.

This is a hard call. The owner has had the pistol since he was 12 years old, and it has a lot of special memories for him. One does not simply throw it into the junk box without some consideration. I have had people spend fantastic amounts of money to fix a gun just because of what it represented to them. The task is made harder because I can’t actually inspect the pistol to see what condition the rest of it is in. I believe the gun was made on an Essex frame and slide. Brownells now sells a frame for $160.00. It is probably better then the one you have now, but a far cry from the best.

Given the round-count that has gone through the pistol I would expect to find considerable wear on other parts, but I don’t know if that wear, in and of itself, would be meaningful. To completely refurbish the gun could run more then you could buy a new Springfield Armory GI-style gun for. But memories have value too.

See what he says.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Roger that Mr. Fuff Sir. The next question I might have for you would be is this. Could I find a slide stop (oversized) to fit the enlarged holes and a (customized) barrel link to boot? Would this effect the barrel going into and out of battery when they should be? The actual slides on the frame have almost no wear for the most part and same goes for slide. Slide lugs look good. Where the barrel lugs sit into the frame indicates no wear as well. All hammer and sear pins and respective holes are very tight. Hammer and Sear fit very well even if the sear is a bit tight in the frame. Overall Old Fuff the rest of the Frame looks great but this is after all coming from someone who is not a gunsmith. He shot the smithereens out of this gun but for the fact of probably using too heavy of a recoil spring, (if it isn't an Auto Ordnance recoil spring) he did take good care of it. The actual fit and finish of the rest of the frame looks better than my Rock Army Arsenal!

 

[1911Tuner]

Auto Ordnance

Unless I miss my guess, it's a Thompson Auto Ord. They weren't known for good QA or longevity. If he put as many rounds through it as he claims without it flyin' apart, I'd have to say that he's pretty much gotten his money's worth. Although the frame can probably be welded up and redrilled, it would probably cost nearly as much as the gun is worth, and it wouldn't last very long at any rate. Fix the hole and the slide will probably crack.
AO's cast slides typically gave up the ghost within 15-20,000 rounds.

Have him contact George Smith at EGW to see if they can custom-make a slidestop with an oversized crosspin. Most of the aftermarket stops with oversized pins are about .200 inch. I think there's one available with a .201 pin, but I can't remember whose. Listed in Brownells, I'm pretty sure. a .203 pin would at least make it serviceable, but not for long-term/hard use. 'Fraid that ship's already sailed.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I took a closer look at this slide and I noticed that the disconnector is wearing a divot out right in front of where the disconnector actuates. That flat spot isn't flat all of the way down either, looks to be scraping by the disconnector. Old Fuff was right when he posted thet he'd rather take a look at the gun to really make a comment. Gun has bought the farm. I really don't know how to break the news to him. With that divot.. you are looking at some dangerous stuff.

 

[Old Fuff]

Most of the early Auto-Ordnance guns were made using USGI surplus parts and Essex frames and slides. The company was owned by Numrich Arms Corp. that is better known now as The Gunparts Corporation (www.e-gunparts.com), and they literally had tons of surplus parts, less slides and frames. Most of the internal parts that aren't worn may be fine, and of a higher quality then is generally used today.

I would propose that you and the gun's owner consider the following.

1. Buy a Springfield Armory USGI clone and substitute the better lockwork that you have, for that which comes in the new gun.

2. Purchase a new frame and slide, (see Brownells @ www,brownells,com) and use those parts that you now have that are still serviceable to build a new gun. This presumes that the barrel and most other parts you have are still good.

Other then the obvious mechanical defects, a pistol that groups like the one you have, with a point of aim/point of impact that is so far off, is worthless as a shooter. Either pistol as suggested above would likely do much better.

By using the parts from the former gun he can retain at least some of his memories.

Discuss the alternatives with a good pistolsmith...

 

[1911Tuner]

AO Internals

On the internal parts...Be sure to check for an obvious parting line, which means a cast part. I have an early 80s production AO that has actually done quite well overall, though I haven't shot it much...but the internals were all pretty crude castings, including hammer, sear, and disconnect.

 

[Old Fuff]

On the internal parts...Be sure to check for an obvious parting line, which means a cast part.

Yup, 'tis possible, but I think this gun may pre-date the cast parts era. Anyway that's why I said:

Discuss the alternatives with a good pistolsmith...

Even if nothing else, using parts like the mainspring housing, grip safety, safety lock, recoil spring guide & plug, magazine latch, grips & screws, and so on will provide a link between the old and new pistols. That might be important to the gun's owner. Otherwise it might be best to simply retire the old pistol and get a new one for a shooter.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

No argument, Fuff old bean...Just a caveat. If the gun has survived that many rounds, it probably does have good internals. I've seen it go both ways and even a few that split between good and bad on the inside. A good GI hammer and cast sear and disconnect...and vice-versa. AO was in a struggle to get their clone up and runnin'.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

That sear is shiny bright metal and looks like it's super hard. Hammer (mim). Disconnector looks like a wore out tooth on the top, it's getting tossed. Firing pin looks like it's came right out of the package. Old Fuff I like option #2. The guy told me that he did have a tremendous amount of sentimental value built up into that gun, said that he went to war with it and really couldn't bear the thought of retiring it. His estimated round count is 30,000. All of the parts are very serviceable with the exception of that cotton pickin trigger assembly, darndest soft metal I have ever seen.