Autopsy shows man died from cocaine, not taser

[Jeff White]

I don't remember if this is one the cases we talked about or not. But it looks like the taser has been ruled out in this death....
Jeff

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...D2DEE43B874307D386256FC70018D6E1?OpenDocument

Autopsy shows man died from cocaine, not stun gun hit
Post-Dispatch
03/16/2005

COLUMBIA, ILL.

Autopsy shows man died from cocaine, not stun gun hit

A man who collapsed hours after he was hit with a Taser stun gun during a disturbance at his Columbia, Ill., home Dec. 16 actually died from a cocaine overdose, according to autopsy results presented at an inquest Wednesday.

Columbia police Officer Shawn Westfall testified he hit Lyle L. Nelson eight times with his Taser stun gun as Nelson fought to prevent Westfall and two other officers from removing him from a bathroom.

Westfall was not sure how many of the Taser hits took effect. He said Nelson, 35, eventually was subdued, apologized and seemed normal.

Nelson admitted he had been smoking crack, and said he had started using the drug when he was 18, Westfall testified.

Five hours later, Nelson collapsed in a cell after he was booked into the Monroe County Jail in Waterloo.

There have been a few deaths around the country among people restrained with Taser guns, but authorities doubt stunning was a factor in Nelson's death hours later. The manufacturer says Tasers are nonlethal.

Westfall testified that police had been called for two previous disturbances at Nelson's home and knew he had a history of cocaine use.

Jailer Randy Unterseh testified that Nelson answered all questions and seemed fine while being booked, but later began ripping at papers and the mattress in his cell and splashing himself with water from the toilet.

Sheriff's deputies and Waterloo police were summoned. They ordered an ambulance when Nelson collapsed against a wall.

Deputy Robert Young testified that officers tried to revive Nelson. He was rushed to Red Bud Regional Hospital, where he was pronounced dead shortly after 6 a.m.

Harold Cowell, a deputy Randolph County coroner, testified that lab tests from an autopsy conducted by Dr. Raj Nanduri showed Nelson died of "acute cocaine toxicity." The coroner's jury ruled death was accidental.

Coroner Randy Dudenbostel allowed Nelson's wife, Tiffany, and her attorney, Kenneth M. Brison of Clayton, to question witnesses. No suit has been filed. Brison said he was only investigating at this point.


Reporter Robert Goodrich E-mail: [email protected] Phone: 618-235-8919

 

[Joejojoba111]

Isn't 'overdose' a legitimate cause of death to write on the report? Just noticing because normally they say 'heart exploded, kidney failure, etc.', never heard the term 'acute cocaine toxicity', and they usually don't call overdoses accidental - it sounds like the user is not blameless.

Just noticing some possible discreptancies, heh detective mode. Probably just journalism and me being misinformed.

One more point, authorities doubt the tazering had any effect, because the manufacturer says they're non-lethal? A little questionable.

I haven't seen too many people OD, but it seems cocaine is fast-acting, and crack cocain is faster. So it hits, then starts to wear off (your body isn;t re-absorbing dopamine and stuff, so you feel good, but it's not permanent and starts wearing off). Unless the guy was smoking crack in his cell why would he overdose 5 hours later?

Combine a current running through the body with symptoms sort of like sun-stroke and I'd make a REALLY sketchy theory that the Tazer current meets resistance in some part of the body, blood or an organ (liver can have heavy metals) or maybe even the brain itself, and the body overheats? Had sunstroke and it feels crazy, head felt funny too, everything just seemed clumbsily large, really aggravating and frustrating, and I had instinct to run head under cold water tap.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

That's one doctor's opinion of his death. If his family decides to sue, it will be easy for them to find a pathologist who will testify the cause of death was something else.

In many autopsies, a definite cause of death can never be found, but the doctor still has to fill out the form, so something has to go in the blank for cause of death. My opinion is this is one of those cases.

I don't know how a Taser would cause death several hours after it was used on someone though.

 

[444]

"....it seems cocaine is fast-acting, and crack cocain is faster. "

Normally. But not if you eat your stash when the cops show up. This wouldn't be all that unusual.

 

[TheFederalistWeasel]

If you go back to around 1990 to 1992 when OC was coming onto the LE scene in full force you had the same sky-is-falling crowd wrote about how OC was killing people. Usually it was they were allergic to it or it caused some type of asthma attack. About once a month it seemed someone was dying after OC was deployed.

In the end after all the reports had been filed, autopsy’s had been done and even the FBI got involved, OC was found to have been a contributing factor in less than 10% of the deaths and those were a direct result of the person being allergic to the active ingredient.

Also they showed that many more people were allergic to bee stings than to OC.

If I may point out something about most all of the cases where people have died when tazers were deployed.

They were being violent and resisting in some capacity; usually they had been violent well before the cops were called. A fight, scuffle or chase happened immediately before the officers used the tazer.

AND… the person being tazed who later died was found to have extremely high levels of alcohol or narcotics in their system.

Hmmmmm……. I wonder? \

Naaahhhh……. Could be, it wouldn’t to much of a news story if the guy was high on crack, began acting out of his mind, fighting everyone and got tazed, then died five hours later when his heart just gave out.

Wouldn’t be much of a news story there now would it?

 

[flatrock]

Joejojoba111,

Isn't 'overdose' a legitimate cause of death to write on the report? Just noticing because normally they say 'heart exploded, kidney failure, etc.', never heard the term 'acute cocaine toxicity', and they usually don't call overdoses accidental - it sounds like the user is not blameless."

Acute - severe
Toxicity - poisioning

Cocaine is a toxic substance. The doctor how performed the autopsy determined that the amount of Cocane in his system was the cause of death.

Overdose is a laymans term. Acute cocane toxicity is apparently an appropriate medical description.

Calling it an accident means that there wasn't evidence of suicide or hommicide, just stupidity.

One more point, authorities doubt the tazering had any effect, because the manufacturer says they're non-lethal? A little questionable.

I think your reading way too much into the way the article was written.

The TASER or electric shock were not losted in the autopsy as contributing to the cause of death. That means the doctor in this case determined that it didn't contribute significantly.

I haven't seen too many people OD, but it seems cocaine is fast-acting, and crack cocain is faster. So it hits, then starts to wear off (your body isn;t re-absorbing dopamine and stuff, so you feel good, but it's not permanent and starts wearing off). Unless the guy was smoking crack in his cell why would he overdose 5 hours later?

As someone else mentioned, he may have swallowed a large quantity to avoid being caught with it. That could result in the delayed effect.

The only real way to determine the cause of death is the autopsy, and the doctor ruled that it was cocaine that killed him.

Combine a current running through the body with symptoms sort of like sun-stroke and I'd make a REALLY sketchy theory that the Tazer current meets resistance in some part of the body, blood or an organ (liver can have heavy metals) or maybe even the brain itself, and the body overheats?

The TASER works at extremely high voltages, but low currents. Twenty six watts over 5 seconds, even done up to 8 times isn't going to be able heat up internal organs much. There just isn't enough current, and it's not being dumped into an isolated area. Your body is also pretty good at dumping heat. Heat stroke happens because the temperature around you is so high your body can't get rid of excess heat.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

so your ole heart is going a mile a minute from the drugs
and then they give you some Taser electrical stimulation...

Ya know drinking and driving doesn't kill you

its the sudden deceleration

 

[flatrock]

so your ole heart is going a mile a minute from the drugs
and then they give you some Taser electrical stimulation...

There have been lots of autopsies in similar cases, and only in a couple have the medical examiner ruled that they TASER was even partially responsible.

Think about how liberal medical organizations tend to be, and think about how surprising those numbers are.

Also consider that having to physically restrain someone is often quite stressful as well, and often results in injuries to the suspect.

Ya know drinking and driving doesn't kill you

its the sudden deceleration

This person didn't die from drinking and driving.

They didn't die from sudden deceleration.

They didn't die from electrical shock.

They died from cocaine poisoning.

 

[Brett Bellmore]

About the only scenario where acute cocaine posioning makes sense THAT long after being jailed, IS if he'd swallowed some. In which case, you'd kind of expect it to be mentioned...

But this IS "journalism"; Omitting key facts is pretty much par for the course. It's quite possible that the autopsy DID mention that cocaine was found in the intestine. You'd have to see the autopsy report itself, rather than relying on what a reporter thought was worth mentioning.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Autopsy shows man died from cocaine, not stun gun hit

Well, yeah, but that doesn't help the cause of leftist extremist class warfare.

 

[thorn726]

Standing Wolf, you would have Loved the newscast here.
it was appalling.
while they speak about the taser not being the cause, telling us it was cocaine, they show a picture of the guy HOLding a Baby.
half the audience heard dead, taser, and saw the kid.

i dont know if the taser was a factor or not, only cuz i dont trust the govt, but cocaine poisoning, sure, it could take a little while to kill you, or maybe like someone said he swallowed a bunch, and more than likely this was the case, that the guy died from the coke, not the taser. Being that he was resisting arrest and a coke dealer, i have no sympathy.

that's what was so lame about the newscast, they painted him as a kind father with this photo they showed. all anyone, especially inner city cop haters, will see is "father killed by cops". stupid.
glad it wasn't here, every time the cops kill someone , it becomes very unsafe for whitey for a few days in some places i go.

why anyone who is cornered would think they are going to escape is beyond me. fighting the police one on the whole force (ultimately). duh. they lose every time.

 

[444]

One thing that I think some people haven't taken into consideration is that a chronic abuser of cocaine already has heart muscle damage. I was told by an ER doctor that EVERY time you do cocaine it causes permenent cardiac tissue damage. I would bet this guy fit into that catagory.
The point being: it wouldn't take as much to kill this guy as it would for someone that was otherwise healthy.

 

[c_yeager]

They give electric shocks to people with sever heart damage all the time. Heck if you ever need a heart transplant this is how they "jumpstart" your new one once its in your chest (assuming that it doesnt start on its own).

I don't know why it is so hard for people to accept that you can die from simply doing too much cocain at one time. It isnt even a remotely rare occurance.

 

[Brett Bellmore]

They give electric shocks to people with sever heart damage all the time.

Yeah, in a kind of, "What the heck, he's dying; This can't make it worse." way. I assure you they DON'T do it unless the alternative is dying.

 

[444]

You miss my point: I am talking about cocaine. Someone does cocaine on a regular basis. Each time he does cocaine he damages his heart. In addition, if he is using at the time, his heart rate is accellerated along with increased force of contraction and blood pressure. One day he gets busted, swollows a few rocks and dies. The point is that it isn't the same as if I swollowed a few rocks. His heart was already damaged and working OT.

 

[flatrock]

Yeah, in a kind of, "What the heck, he's dying; This can't make it worse." way. I assure you they DON'T do it unless the alternative is dying.

You're nervous system works on electrical impulses. In general the approach on not screwing with something tht's working keeps them from shocking your heart.

It's not that low current shock damage the heart, it's that there's no reason to do it.

My father has an irregular heatbeat. It is not life threatening. It merely decreases the efficiency of his heart and makes him more easily winded (lungs working overtime to try and get enough oxygen to his system while the heart is the bottleneck).

He has had his heart shocked back into rythm several times in an attempt to cure his problem.

The effect hasn't been lasting, so the doctors have stopped that approach. However, the doctors very clearly told him that the shocks do not damage the heart.