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Autozone Gun Issue

Discussion in 'Activism' started by dbp, Dec 4, 2012.

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  1. Trueno

    Trueno Member

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    The ones here with the "zero tolerance" mentality just because the book says so. ie: It's the law, it is the absolute because it says so right here, etc etc etc". The ones googling every little speck of info so they can say SEE, SEE, I"M RIGHT!!eleven!

    t
     
  2. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    thank you

    company policy can change with the wind.

    If the guy saved was the CEO's nephew the hero would be an area manager by now.

    the bottom line is this...it is wrong to fire the guy. There were extraordinary circumstances that lead to the "violation of policy".
     
  3. powder

    powder member

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    No, the bottom line is a company has liability concerns, pertaining to firearms on their properties: the ambulance chasing lawyers line up for this kind of stuff around the block-employee kills someone, lawsuits begin.

    Employee acts on free will against company policy (gun at work), company is no longer liable for employee's actions.

    I do not agree with the AZ policy, or the firing, but it's AZ's freedom of choice for their business. If you want to dictate what everyone creates for their policy, you are one step closer to Communism in China or North Korea. Freedoms and Liberties are a double-edged sword and you might not like how it always cuts.
     
  4. guyfromohio

    guyfromohio Member

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    Government influence of policy drives us towards "communism". Market pressures influencing policy drives us towards freedom.
     
  5. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    We are so concerned with "cost" rather than being honorable. These days "honor" is steamrolled by "liability".

    The men that landed on Omaha Beach, that crossed the Potomac, that signed the Declaration of Independence did not think about "liability". They were men...good men...brave men.


    “Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”
    ― Leo Tolstoy
     
  6. smalls

    smalls Member

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    Invalid point. Back then they didn't have the laws or type of lawyers we have today. It's a different time, with different laws and rules that we must follow.
     
  7. mitzip

    mitzip Member

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    This is a spectacular thread with awesome quotes, both original and quoted, in almost every post.

    I'd like to point out this auto zone policy is shared by Walmart, most banks and some armored car companies. Those are the one's I'm aware of.

    --------------------
    Sent from my tablet. Please excuse my brevity, spelling and grammar.
     
  8. powder

    powder member

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    Absolutely, and the US Postal Service as well as UPS and FedEx, and on and on...

    Wishing for a time of ago does not change the perspective of liabilities, or choices to be made by a business.

    As a firearms Instructor do you think I enjoy buying liability insurance every year, and turning down certain groups because my coverage does not include their venue for the school they want me to teach? Nope, but that's the way of the gun today: gunslinger or legal beagles each...
     
  9. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    While your appeal to emotion is well intended, as noted, it is invalid. Nearly every for profit business is not in business for the purpose of promoting honor. They are in business to make money - plain and simple. That's why they are called "busiensses" and not called "honors."

    You see, "honor" doesn't pay the bills. Honor doesn't pay employees, many of whom happen to be veterans as well.

    It is nice when people are honored, but the same military that you referred to in your post is and always has been serious about punishing those who break the rules and have been known to bust war heroes as well.

    Maybe when you run a business, you can find a way to make it run on honor and not be susceptible to the burdens of insurance, liability, and other financial concerns. When you do, please share with the rest of us.
     
  10. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    DNS,

    First off, it has been a LONG time since I worked for someone else but even when I did, I was running their business. This is to say that I am quite familiar with running businesses as I have done so for decades.

    Any concept or idea is easily tested by taking it to an extreme. (to anyone following, this is a fictitious scenario and any resemblance to anyone living or dead is purely coincidental, including Penn State.)

    Let us say that there was a business that had, for the point of conversation, a convicted child molester who was the top salesman with the largest volume clients. Without his sales the company, teetering on solvency, would be out of business. If you fire him, he takes those clients to another company.

    Using your theory, the owner should ignore the heinousness of the employee. After all, he has payrolls to meet. People depend on the business. And the horrible deed can't be undone.

    Sorry dude. I can't go along with that.

    Yes, I have lost money doing the right thing and I will surely do it again.

    I am okay with that.
     
  11. mitzip

    mitzip Member

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    Guillermo, I'm with you.

    Powder, DNS, you know just as well as I, just because everyone's doing or thinkin' it doesn't make it right.

    Funny thing is, if all the people that thought like myself, guillermo, and a lot of other people who have voiced their opinions on this thread, had always put their money where their mouth is, you guys would be on our side, because 'emotional' (read honorable) business is what would be selling.

    Instead we've rewarded unsporting and dishonorable conduct. Now, a lot of those companies have grown large enough to create gov funded monopolies and no longer need our support to act as badly as they wish.

    Walmart and banks for instance. :-(

    Also, you can't blame all the smaller companies that have crappy policies. They hire people to make their policies who have been fed this load of BS at school. Some of the BS is created to stifle competition (by requiring artificial overhead capital to enter a market), and of course the lawyers love scaring you to death too.
    --------------------
    Sent from my tablet. Please excuse my brevity, spelling and grammar.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  12. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Good, then you understand how ludicris it is for outsiders to tell you your business and how you should operate your business the way that they see fit over what you think is right or appropriate. I am sure you didn't or don't bend to the will of strangers to change policies you believe to be appropriate and right to suit their views with which you don't agree, do you?

    Yet you want Autozone to do exactly that. Funny how that works.
     
  13. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    You are right.

    I do expect businesses and people to do the right thing.

    When they do not I am at the very least, disappointed.

    In cases such as this, I change my buying habits and call them the jerks they are.

    BTW, I am willing to take any criticism for how I run my business and/or live my life.

    A lot of times they are right and I can improve.
     
  14. Jethro1200

    Jethro1200 Member

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    mitzip said it well. The right thing is the right thing no matter what. I was in Yorktown Va. at the first protest or whatever you want to call it. It was the right thing for myself and about forty other people. The man in question was there, he did what he thought was right then and before. Do we have a chance at changing a policy that is so wrong, probably not but we did not just stand around and watch evil win with no opposition. What do you people want your children to see you do? How do you want them to act?
     
  15. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

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    The men who died at Chosin Reservoir, or during the Tet Offensive, or during Desert Shield, or going up into the World Trade Centers to rescue people, or during Desert Storm, or in Iraq or Afghanistan within the last 10 years to defend your right to say crap like that above were not good or brave men?

    I've sworn oaths and voluntarily put my life on the line in both military service and civilian law enforcement. When is the last time you risked your life or livelihood in defense of your country or community?
     
  16. Trueno

    Trueno Member

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    No earthly idea how you got the idea that guillermo doesn't/wouldn't think the men you mentioned aren't on the same par as the ones he listed.

    :confused:
     
  17. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    Did I say that?

    Please cut and paste for if I even suggested it I would like to retract.

    risked my life?
    It has been a couple of decades.

    Risked my livelihood?
    Fairly often although I consider the risk minimal and certainly worth it.
     
  18. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

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    I read it as "These days honor is steamrolled by liability". The second statement implied that the days with the good brave men, when honor was not steamrolled by liability, ended after WW2.
     
  19. rem44m

    rem44m Member

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    Government influence of policy drives us towards "communism". Market pressures influencing policy drives us towards freedom.
    AMEN!
     
  20. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    Certainly it was not my intent to suggest that honor died in WWII.

    I apologize for any miscommunication.
     
  21. powder

    powder member

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    Do the right thing: do not be a draft dodger, and serve your country honorably. Yet, we have thousands of NRA members who will defend Ted Nugent's draft dodging Viet Nam and excessive pot smoking.

    Businesses like AutoZone, General Electric, or Exxon Mobil do not confer with me/you on their policies and never will. Carry on with the boycott...
     
  22. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    2A boycotts of major corporations never succeed in changing the corporation's policies or practices.

    Even if Autozone hires this guy back, they aren't going to change their policy.
     
  23. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    please stay within the facts

    Nuge dodged the draft but has never been a druggie

    (not that smoking dope has anything to do with honor...this is just a correction. You made your point)
     
  24. Sebastian the Ibis
    • Contributing Member

    Sebastian the Ibis Member

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    There is an Advanced Autoparts down the road from me where the clerk open carries. They get my business.
     
  25. powder

    powder member

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    "please stay within the facts

    Nuge dodged the draft but has never been a druggie

    (not that smoking dope has anything to do with honor...this is just a correction. You made your point)"

    I am within the facts: the article wherein Nugent admitted to being a draft dodger was in High Times magazine, where he also admitted to be a huge weed user and advocate.

    Even though you do not like that history, it cannot be re-written.

    Again, AutoZone is no different of an employer than ANY other: most have a no gun on property by employees policy, for insurance and liability reasons.

    Trying to eliminate their freedoms and choices of how they run THEIR business, is more commie-think than I have seen in a long time here.

    Like the Instructors said: you don't have to like it, just do it. Wanna make a change in American 2A battlefield? Attack the Insurance companies which impose these no-brainer decisions on company owners.
     
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