babbitt?

[Bibbyman]

I have a friend that's in and out of the scrap business. I asked him if he ever comes across lead. He didn't come up with that answer but he did say he had a half full 5 gallon bucket of babbitt. He said the bucket was too heavy to pick up and indicated we could make a trade.

I looked up babbitt and it comes in many alloys ranging from 90% tin with balance lead, copper and other metals to 90% lead and balance other metals.

Sounds like some babbitt could be usable bullet material and some may be good to mix in with pure lead.

Is there any simple way to tell if it's high lead content or low lead content?

Anyone with experience using babbitt to cast bullets?

 

[72coupe]

I have never had any, but if I did I would just use it to sweetin my alloy.

 

[Bibbyman]

I should have done some Googleing before posting. Looks like every forum has covered this topic.

If I get a chance to get this metal at a bargain prices, I'll take it just to see what I get.

One suggests if you drop it on concrete and it rings, it's tin based. If it thuds, it's lead based. That would be a first cut. The specific gravity of tin is about 7.3, lead 11.3. So if I cast up some bullets and compare the weight against bullets cast in mostly lead, I should be able to tell if it's mostly lead or mostly tin.

 

[Doak]

I would hang a piece of it from a thin wire and tap it w/a 1/4'' metal rod for the ring/thud test.

Maybe do an experiment w/melting points?

 

[whughett]

Babbit is a lead based material used for bearings. In my days in the engine room of a Navy destroyer one of our duties was to install the bearings on any shaft driven piece of machinery. Don't know the composition but the materia behaved as lead does. At one time it was also used in automobile engines crankshafts bearings. We scraped it with edge tools and cut oil channels in by hand. The bearings were cast much as one would cast any lead in a mould. IMO if it melts down and drosses as lead does I would use it for any bullet I use.

 

[Sam1911]

Huh, and I was wondering if you couldn't find someone who uses antique machinery who really could use some!

 

[4v50 Gary]

Babbit bars are useful for gunsmithing (non marring heavy metal for tapping things).

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Many years ago I had an old jointer that had babbit bearings. My advice is, if you can scratch it with your thumbnail, then it is probably fine for Black Powder cartridge bullets. However, I would not use it for Cap & Ball projectiles. C&B balls really need to be pure, soft lead, so you can easily shave off a ring of lead. I strongly suspect babbit metal will be too hard for that.

No matter how cheap it is, there is no advantage to using something that is not right for the intended use.

 

[EvilGenius]

A lot of engines still use them as bearings for the crank, etc.

Small aircraft engines especially.

 

[EvilGenius]

Howdy

Many years ago I had an old jointer that had babbit bearings. My advice is, if you can scratch it with your thumbnail, then it is probably fine for Black Powder cartridge bullets. However, I would not use it for Cap & Ball projectiles. C&B balls really need to be pure, soft lead, so you can easily shave off a ring of lead. I strongly suspect babbit metal will be too hard for that.

No matter how cheap it is, there is no advantage to using something that is not right for the intended use.

This.

 

[72coupe]

Have you priced Tin (Sn) lately? It is several dollars per pound.

 

[Skinny 1950]

For most muzzle loaders you want pure lead,to harden lead for bullets in higher velocity pistols and rifles Antimony is added with a bit of tin.
I have used lead mixed with a high percentage of tin as a high velocity bullet but had some leading of the barrel. Antimony is what is needed for hardening, it also pours really well.

 

[Zeke/PA]

I had access to a lot of Babbitt years ago and used it for many things. mainly for poured bearings in older machinery. I still have the bearing scrapers that I made as a young lad learning "my trade". Personally, I wouldn't use it for bullets, prefering pure lead or a lead/tin/ antimony alloy that can be duplicated from batch to batch.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

I have never used antimony when casting bullets. For my Black Powder bullets I either use pure lead, or I add a bit of tin, about 20/1 lead/tin. The reason I sometimes add tin is to vary the amount of shrinkage when the bullet cools. Pure lead shrinks the most, adding a bit of tin causes the bullet to shrink just a bit less than pure lead. So I can vary the diameter a given mold drops bullets at by varying the tin content. One of my molds is a bit oversized and the only way I can get a bullet small enough out of it is to cast pure lead from it. My other molds drop an acceptable sized bullet with a bit of tin added.

Yes, tin is expensive. But I don't need much. You want to play the game, you have to pay for it, one way or another.

Note, this is only relating to bullets to be used in cartridges loaded with Black Powder. For a C&B revolver you want the softest ball you can get, so that you don't bend or break something as you force it into the chamber. I only use pure lead balls for C&B.

 

[Jaymo]

I use pure lead for my C&B revolvers and wheel weights for my Howdah Pistol.

 

[whughett]

On the subject of pure lead. Unless one buys from a lead source advertised as pure lead how would you know. I mean any lead scrounged as scrap has gone throuh some sort of manufacturing process. If it has been cast then additives of some type were added to aid the process.
Hear a lot about "pure lead" in these pages. I have cast centerfire bullets for a lot of years and never paid much attention to the lead alloy as to mixture. If it cast a good looking bullet in the right neighborhood of weight it was sent down range. Of course I don't shoot competive and all the loads are target velocity only with the exception of a few that are gas checked. Now that I shoot black powder, hand guns only, I use the same sources for lead and cast the round balls, R.E.A.L and concial as I do the center fire stuff, sans the sizing and lubing operations,. Really can't see much difference from the few Hornaday Round Balls I have purchased and the ones I cast from scrounged lead.

Any additive, tin, antimony, that is added to lead will change the weight of the finished bullet which is why I weight a few. For instance the REAL are suppose to weight 200 grains but weigh an average of 196 grains. The conicals, from a Rapine 454215, weight an average of 211 grains. Big difference, don't know as I have never used "pure lead" they load, they shoot and they group as nice as my ability allows.
Another qualifer is I don't hunt or carry percussion, so expansion is a moot point.

Might I add that I gave up on wheel weights, just not worth the bother.

 

[72coupe]

Pure in the context we use it is a relative term. I doubt that any of us use metal that is 100.000% pure.

 

[jgh4445]

I was given these 5, joined ingots and was told they are babbitt. I think not. I can mark them with my thumb nail. They weigh about 4.5 lbs each. Interestingly, the Overland Motor company was bought out by the Willis Company. The Willis Company eventually made Willis Jeeps. I had thought the ingots may have been babbitt used in bearings, but I think its too soft.

 

[Patocazador]

I wouldn't pay much for that half bucket. I bought an overflowing 5 gal. bucket of wheel weights from my local tire dealer. He charged me $20 which is what the wholesaler/recycler gives him. It contained about 1/3 of stick-on lead weights, about half of clamp-on weights and the remainder were iron etc. It weighed over 120 lbs.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Yeah, pure is a relative term.

For a while I was buying scrap sheet lead from a company that was using it as shielding against radiation. Was it absolutely 100% pure lead? I have not idea. But it was much purer than the stuff I make when I add a bit of tin. Did it shrink at a different rate than the stuff I had added tin to? Absolutely, by a measurable amount.

Another thing I have learned is that the alloy I make by adding a bit of tin does not tarnish over time. Stays bright and shiny for years. My 'pure' lead bullets oxidize to a dull appearance pretty quickly.

 

[Kaeto]

My dad would probably have a use for babbit in his hobby of restoring antique tractors.

 

[whughett]

I was given these 5, joined ingots and was told they are babbitt. I think not. I can mark them with my thumb nail. They weigh about 4.5 lbs each. Interestingly, the Overland Motor company was bought out by the Willis Company. The Willis Company eventually made Willis Jeeps. I had thought the ingots may have been babbitt used in bearings, but I think its too soft.

Those might have some collectors value, given their apparent age.
My plumber son gives me ingots much like those from time to time.

 

[whughett]

Pure in the context we use it is a relative term. I doubt that any of us use metal that is 100.000% pure.

I was fishing for an answer to why it is necessary to use pure lead for round balls. Cutting a ring while seating in chamber dosen't seem to cover it. Sharp edged hardend steel cylinder mouths would cut a ring regardless of the leads hardness. I mean I can see it if one is shoving a projectile down a 30" plus rifles barrel with a skinny stick so the overall reason must be something else. Looking for a lecture from some of our more educated brethen. I could be just pissing in the wind and there is no valid reason.

 

[44 Dave]

I was fishing for an answer to why it is necessary to use pure lead for round balls. Cutting a ring while seating in chamber dosen't seem to cover it. Sharp edged hardend steel cylinder mouths would cut a ring regardless of the leads hardness. I mean I can see it if one is shoving a projectile down a 30" plus rifles barrel with a skinny stick so the overall reason must be something else. Looking for a lecture from some of our more educated brethen. I could be just pissing in the wind and there is no valid reason.

You can tell by the excessive loading leaver pressure when the balls are too hard.
If you don't have an assortment of lead of different hardness you may never get a chance to cast ones that don't load well.

 

[Kaeto]

I was given these 5, joined ingots and was told they are babbitt. I think not. I can mark them with my thumb nail. They weigh about 4.5 lbs each. Interestingly, the Overland Motor company was bought out by the Willis Company. The Willis Company eventually made Willis Jeeps. I had thought the ingots may have been babbitt used in bearings, but I think its too soft.

I think those might be body lead. For filling in the rough surfaces of welds on automobile bodies.