Making my own bullets, question regarding metal?

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Bad bullets do hit very well. But should not harm the gun.

Bad casts with soft lead... yes, you're right.

Bad casts with a too hard, unknown alloy? Don't be so sure.

The biggest problem here isn't with Fastson's casting technique, it's the fact he doesn't know what he's casting with. Could be pure antimony for all we know.

Better to err on the side of caution at this point, I think.
One way or the other, I'm not gonna tell him to do something I haven't at least tried myself, and have some idea as to whether it'll work or not.



J.C.
 
I use only pure lead for my roundballs. If anyone wants to use harder lead, go right ahead, but things will go wrong. First of all, you will not be able to ram the ball down properly and will probably break or damage the loading lever. Most likey the ball will not seat below the edge of the chamber and you will not be able to turn the cylinder. Now you have to remove the cylinder and the nipple and push the ball out from the nipple side with a strong piece of metal, which is not good for the nipple threads in the cylinder. If you do seat the ball below the rim, it most likely will not conform to the shape of the chamber enough to prevent a chainfire. And if you don't have a chainfire (which, by the way, was no big deal the two times it happened to me), the gasses from the BP exploding could slip around the ball instead of pushing it out, thus reducing velocity and accuracy. Also, you have to think about the damage a harder metal will do to the rifling in the barrel. Now, add all that to an antique gun and, well, like Jamie C. said, I'd rather err on the side of caution.
Nothing to do with Chicken Little or Aids - just common sense.
 
I tryed wheel weight lead for round balls once , it may have worked well on a Colt because the ball rammer lever is made stronger ..BUT the balls were just too hard for the pins on my 1858 Remington lever and sheared one of the pivot pins ...Since that happened I`ve stayed with plumbers grade lead for round ball casting ..I use the harder stuff for bullet casting .
 
I tore up a floor in a bedroom and found this pipe running along the joists. Sundance identified it as a lead water pipe. It's 15 feet long and weight 30 lbs, and it's soft enough to tie in a knot. Sure going to get some roundballs out of this once the weather breaks.
Lead for water pipes - wow.
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Pohill thats whats in my open pot ..water pipes ...I bought 150 lbs of them last year ..was I glad to get them ..with the price of clean lead 2.45 a lb here the water pipes cost me 80 cents a lb ..and cast real soft round balls ..
 
I just scrounged 15 pounds of lead from the backstop at the indoor pistol range, and should be able to get another 15 pounds next week. It's probably over 95% lead from .22's. Harder than pure lead, but I can scratch it pretty good with my fingernail. That should be OK for casting balls for my ROA, right?
 
indoor range or any range except black powder ranges ...sounds more like bullet lead , not good Round ball lead ..it`ll be too hard for round balls . They would be real hard to seat ...might break or bend your loading rammer lever.
 
Sundance been there done that. used to do pot method. i tell you what once you try a bottom pour lee production pot you will never do propane again. as far as molds at one time i was up to 12 molds. sold a few of the molds i did not like on gun brokers
 
I tried the electric Lee mold ..not the real big one but one of the smaller ones ..I didn`t like it ..too hard to keep things hot ..I like a nice fire under the pot , so I can heat my mold next to the flame while the lead melts ....my first cast looks as good as my last this way . I burned out the element on the Lee electric ..in less than 6 months ..I was doing alot of casting so I didn`t complain and I know a guy that is useing one he has had for 15 years , he doesn`t cast near as much as I do though ...just went back to my propane set up and didn`t look back . It`s hard not to keep buying molds when the Lee molds cost about the same as 2 boxes of store bought balls .
 
Well i have probably cast over 30k from my lee production IV pot. As for warming up the mold and keeping heat. it is way more accurate than a stove. Here is what i do.. Set up the pot plug it in. put in about 10lbs of lead. Put the mold on top. Then i start setting up the rest of my stuff. smoke a cig, go find the wax. i always forget the wax to flux. finish my coffee. Now i have to find something to put the junk in. Usually take a soda can and cut it. to pour the junk from the top of the pot. Then the lead is at a good temp to flux. i flux it wait a few minutes stir it again. flux it again. Now the lead looks pure. Crank it from number 9- 7 on the adjustment dial. then i cast about 5 bullets really quick. just pour it. smack the sprue. you can tell the temp by whacking the sprue. Then open the mold sideways to see the bullet. if i dont like it i dump it back in the pot. cast a few more keep looking and dumping. Mold is nice and hot now. so i start casting my keepers. No laddle. just lift the handle. Lead pours out the bottom evenly. hold it over the top at an angle. smack the sprue. The lead falls back in at an angle. ope the mold on a wet cloth. then repeat. Now for hard cast bullets i use a different pot and i dump the bullets in a bucket of ice cold water. only time i stop is when the water warms up. or if i have to put more lead in the pot.
 
Use wheelweights or most any alloy of lead you may scrounge, wheelweights have been a favorite of mine for this use for close to forty yrs. Once upon a time they were free for the asking, at most any service station!
Again; your mold was too cold! this alone may account for the descrepancy in the balls weight, cast a couple of hundred, watching your sprue you can actually see the metal harden, then give it a few more seconds, you want the metal to be solid or you may develope a "smear" of lead under the cut off plate,which WILL raise it higher, giving further variation of the ball .
Visually inspect them and send any obviously deformed back to the pot, weigh them, enough to find just what your particular alloy weighs from your mold and segregate out the lighter ones as these will contain air pockets, which will destroy accuracy( have you ever notice how badly a car will vibrate with an unbalanced tire?) Further if you should segregate your heaviest balls you will find these to be the most consistant for accuracy.
Google Beartooth bullets they are advocates of using hardened balls for accuracy! just drop your wheelweight balls into a bucket of chilled water!
DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IN AN NEGLIGENT MANNER A STEAM EXPLOSION IN A POT OF MOLTEN LEAD IS NOT A SAFE ENTERPRISE , NO MATTER HOW EXCITING IT APPEARS!!!!
While Crisco, and lard will both suffice, my preference is for a mix of Beeswax and olive oil you may substitute parrifin wax for the beeswax if that is more easily obtainable, mix to a consistancy of shoe polish and like shoe polish it will liquify when worked, but not run on a hot day( lol sweden hot?)
Read the stickies heading the blackpowder forum!!!!
robert
My Navy wouldnt use 375 balls as they just fell into the chamber mouth!
went from those to a mold @ 385 Think australian rules football, now i need maybe a 460 or better for my rugers!
Scrat I must defer to your judgement on the Remington design weakness!
We seem to agree on the rest!
r
 
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wheel weights are great for hard cast.

wheel weights contain tin and antinomy. Not pure lead. yet you can cast round balls, conicals and anything with it. Once you go to load a roundball from wheel weights you will know. Its going to be hard to press in. Not good on the gun. Pure lead is what the gun is designed for. I was pressed for some lead one time. so i was at pep boys and talked the service manager into letting me buy some wheel weights. He gave me a 1/2 bucket of old and a box of new wheel weights. The side of the box had the breakdown of the percent of tin and antinomy. Perfect hard cast bullet. NOT pure leat Not good for black powder.

Disagree on that one.
 
I may have gotten a defective electric pot ..at the time I was casting a lot of the heavy 405 gr 45/70 bullets ...takes a lot of lead to do much casting with such a large bullet, don`t know if you`ve ever cast any that large they look like anti tank projectials ...so I kind of blame it not lasting on myself ..I kept the heat cranked up real hot all the time ..If I don`t mess around and take too many smoke breaks I can uasually cast between 450 or 500 round balls out of one of the little propane tanks ..useing a dubble cavity mold .. I can say one thing on the positive side for the Lee electric pot ...it was a lot easyer to keep things cleaned up around ...not near as messy .The wife burns alot of those smelly little candles around the house ...think she is trying to tell me something ..yea probally the dog smells bad .....anyway she gives me that last 1/4 of a candle to use as flux ..makes my casting pot smell real pretty ...LOL
 
Yep along with casting bullets. i usually save some of the junk you skim off the top. Just the lead part. and then use all the cheap lead. This gets cast once a year for fishing weights. For deep sea, we use anything from number 1-number 6 weight. I also make fishing jigs. The fishing weights take a great deal of lead. HUGE.
 
fastson , There are flaws in the 1 ball I can see, which means the mould was cold, and the balls are not well made. I have no problem seeing these balls might be 6/10ths light. None at all.

the hammer probably isn't pure lead either, but is likely soft enough. You could use far harder wheel weights in a 6 gun too, no problem. Atleast that is my opinon. Long guns shooting a patched round ball 'need' soft closer to pure lead, so a patch can bite the ball and the rifling.

I have a EMF 1860 clone and a Ruger Old Army, and cast car wheel weights for them, saving my more pure soft lead for my flinters.

Casting:

1 Make dam sure you are not in a place that 1 single drop of water can fall into the moulten lead! If one does it will end your day in a very bad day. The pot will empty itself in miliseconds! (A shed with a tin roof on a cold day can make rain inside! I had this happen in a barn once, and lucked out being a few steps away.)

2 clean the mould hollows real well, with degreaser to get off any oils where the ball will be poured and away from the areas near the hollows, so the heat doesn't draw oil like solder is drawn to heat.

3 With a candle blacken the hollows well, make them good and dark.

4 (I have no idea what method you melt lead with, I use a woodstove and a cast iron pot)

When the lead is hot and melted, add a grease like cooking fat waste, in about a tea spoon full. This will smoke and be black and stink nasty!

With a long match till you get used to it, light the smoke on fire, to get rid of the stink.

With a stainless steel spoon remove the crud that floats.

5 with a dipper pour a ball, and with a hard woo stick handy, open the mould and tap the mould, so the ball drops in a padded tin tray. That first ball will be bad, and is going in the pot again, and so will the next 10, but not now.

All you are doing is getting the mould to temp. Keep doing that untill you get good balls. make all the good balls you like, but sooner or later the mould will over heat, and you will know when the balls become frosty looking. These are junk too.

6 let the mould cool off a few minutes, and while you wait you can dig out the wrinkley looking balls and with some care drop them into the lead, and add any frosty ones too, and by then see of the mould will cast a nice ball.

If it is wrinkley looking, the mould cooled down a bit too much, and if it is frosty, then it didn't cool off enough.

7 Last, when you are ready to stop, cast one more ball, and just leave it in the mould. Just leave it there, let the mould cool, and store the mould dry.

Grease: We have all kinds of grease to shoot with, but I have no idea what you have. If you have Crisco in the food stores use that. if not and there isn't anything like that, make some.

Use beef, sheep and other food fats you can collect as food waste. If you eat hamburgers for a week and collect the fats, you will have plenty for a days shooting.

1 collect the fats in a tin can for week.

2 dump that mess in a sauce pan with about that same amount in water, and boil it 10 minutes at rapid boil.

3 let it cool well in a refrigerator, until the grease is a light tan/ off white.

If you are smart you will spoon off the oil on top and save that.

Next with a spoon handle make 2 opeings in the grease, and pour off the water.

Drop the hardened grease in another clean container, an let the water dry, flip that grease hunk over to let the other side dry, and then you can use it.

You will have removed the crud, and should have nice clean grease, that you can shoot and coat the gun with to prevent rust.

I would avoid oils made for cars and other machines if I were you. They didn't have a lot of that when your un was made anyway.
 
Wow thats a lot of replies. Thanks alot guys, now I have something to read. :)

Yes the mould was cold, it was just an attempt to see how things worked. I will redo all the balls if I decide to shoot them.. right now it looks like I'm waiting for the Hornadys, since I will have something to compare with. Thanks for the guide Macmac.

Regarding size, .457 is maybe overdoing it? I ordered some .454 also.
 
If the chambers are chamferred, (bevelled) the ring that shaves from a .454 might be down inside the chamber, but it will be there. To my way of thinking, a .457 will shave lead, as will a .490, but do you need the extra size if a .454 will work?
 
pohill: Yes if a .454 works well I'll just go with that. Much easier to press down into the chamber if nothing else. ;)

Sigh, still waiting on that order to be sent, looks like it can take a while.

100 .457 lead balls
100 .454 lead balls
200 Remington #10 PC
1 set of solvents, oils etc.

But.. only the best for my revolver.

:)
 
Soory about that.

Hey there:I made one mistake. I said bad bullets do hit very well. Meant to say they do not hit very well.Most here are right the mold was too cold and the fact that the metal is unknown does not help.Wheel weights probably wont hurt the gun, But the reason for the pure lead is to create a better gas seal on the way out the barrel. And wheel weights may be too hard for that and accuracy "may " suufer. The general rule for BP guns is pure lead bullets .
 
Mentioned, a time ago, that I’d about fifty pounds, or so, of lead in the form of an ingot. What, with Sundance’s announcement of $2.54 per pound – local; figgered ‘D better get the durned thing outta the line o’ site from those who might, otherwise, be of an honest intent.

Ran a steel brush over it, then chose to actually weigh the thing, whilst I was at it. Turns out to be exactly fifty pounds, by the bathroom scale. (Great news for the metal value; also my own guestamountage. Not so much for me own, personal, poundage value, though.)

(* cough *)

The fingernail scale says that this slab’ll work for burnin’ and turnin’. So, must thank all of yuns, fer the particulars, as to how to make the transformation actually come about. Said particulars, involving moulds, fire types and all, such as you have mentioned.

Am getting’, that much, closer to projectile independence, thanks t’ y’all.

Iffin’ ‘M not kilt by such, will be back-lookin’ at the making of coal powders, next.

It’s all good, though. Ride a street bike, too. That’s another thing you shouldn’t try, at home, kids…

Here's a photo of thet slab o' metal:


Ingot Alone.jpg


Ingot Perspective.jpg
 
Perk that is an odd shape for lead. Where did it come from? A plumbers pig of lead is much longer and weighs around sixty pounds. I have no idea what a fifty pound brick would be used for other then shielding for Xray or atomic pile.

Sundance44 yea I know what you mean about going through lead in a hurry. I used to use the lee 405 hollow base in my 45/70 but now use the 500gr spitzer. It's pure lead that I cast with but I still water drop them. There is no antimony so they don't harden but they also don't deform from dropping out of the mold onto a hard surface. The water softens the fall and cools the melt right now so they come out look good with no flat spots. And Sundance44 please don't smoke while casting!!! That is a direct route for lead to enter your body. Let alone the damage from smoking.

Fastson Pay attention to what I said about if the ball shaves lead and chambers in the cylinder. If that happens then it's good to go. If it is to hard to shave a ring of lead, please pay attention to how much force you put on the loading lever, then don't shoot it. That's the real test. If it will shave down into the cylinder go for it. If the alloy you have will not do that you still might be able to salvage it by mixing it with pure lead. I would start with three pounds of pure lead to one pound of your unknown alloy. If this still won't chamber cut that with three more pounds but I bet it will work just fine. You also might want to invest in a lead thermometer. This will help you keep track of what temp you molds fill out the best. And have the molds hot before you start casting. I set mine on to of the lead while it's melting. This get it up to temp fast.
 
If you want to go through lead fast try running 58 cal. maxiballs.
I've had a Lee production pot for 20 years and my only complaint is the leaky valve.
Here comes a story on myself:
I was casting some bullets and added some lead to fill the pot. After lead had come up to temp. I cast the first bullet and the valve stuck wide open. In a panic I grabbed the first can near at hand to put under the spout. Don't ask me why but the can I grabbed had 4- .22 cal rounds in it. Yep, your right. the rounds started going off splattering lead all over me and my work bench. Scare the crap out me. I'll admit this to the forum because you know by now that I'm not a complete idiot.
 
Pancho, I don't usually like to laugh at another person's misfortunes, but that description you gave of the .22 rounds going off and all, well, that was funny in a sick, lockerroom kind of way. And believe me, I've done my share of "funny" things. Like last year when I was working on staging on the side of my house, and being afraid of heights, I used a safety harness with a tether. Well, an elderly neighbor of mine pointed out to me the fact that the tether was probably 20 feet long and seeing as I was 15 feet off the ground, it probably wouldn't do me any good if I fell.
 
Misfire99 – Had a client, who used to have a big, ol’ eucalyptus tree on one spot, in his yard and an old wooden shed in another. Got windy, one day (as it tends to, up here, on a regular basis), and the two ended up sharing the same spot.

Came to find that, at the very bottom of this mess, lay this ingot of lead – mostly buried in the ground. Asked the client about it. He’d no idea where it had come from, but allowed me to take the thing home. Believe lead was worth about thirty-four cents, per pound, at the time. So, this was way back, just a few years ago.

Looks like someone’s home brew lead got mixed into a metal baking pan. Seems to have uniform consistency, though.

And, since we’re sharin’: My folks loved to tell the story of how I discovered spray paint, at a young age. Black, it was. When they first saw me, after the thing went off, they thought I’d gotten a nice shiner, somehow. Since then, it’s just been one success story, after another…
 
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