Back up gun for a female sheriffs reserve. Please help.

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I have a Kahr PM9 and can tell you it has an excellent trigger and quality. The only thing negative I can say about them is they are expensive. BVut if you are going to trust your life to a gun, you want something you can count on to go bang. I was in the local gunshop and he had one in excellent condition with night sights priced at $450. I purchased it immediately and have been very pleased. This is a gun I will definetly keep!
Tell your friend to look around for a good used one. The late models have the smooth trigger.
 
First-if she can make it fit, get a S&W J-frame 1 7/8" in either .38 or .32 H&R. Like a 642/442 or 432PD.

If too big/doesn't like wheel-guns then I'd look at Kahr PM9 or Kel Tec P-11.

Even smaller I'd go with Kel-Tec P32 or P-3AT, or a NAA 32ACP if you can deal with the weight.

About the smallest you can go is a NAA mini-revolver.

But overall the best gun if its not too big (or does't like revos) is a S&W Airweight (13-16oz) J-frame 1 7/8" barrel.
 
Try a Taurus 85. I had the .357 magnum version and was a little much to handle but a .38 with the right ammo would get the job done every time. It's also easy to shoot, fits nicely into a purse, and you don't have to spend an arm and a leg to get one.
 
Either the S&W 642LS, 442 or the 638. All easy to conceal, lightweight, hammerless or are shrouded so there will be no snagging and all are rated for the 38+P.

As a firearms instructor at my department those are the models I reccommend for the officers who want to carry a backup. I carry a Model 49 myself.
 
Any beretta or Keltec .32 or .380 would be acceptable.

On the larger side one could go with some nice aluminum framed .380 options such as the Bersa Thunder and Sig 232. If possible one of those little 9mm Kahrs or baby Glocks would be nice to.

One would also be well served with any J-fram offering from Smith and Wesson.

The only way to figure out which is the right choice is to find a shop (or friends that have them) and try them out. None of the above mentioned guns are particularly comfortable or easy to shoot. Frankly, they are all a big PITA to fire accuratly (the Sig and Bersa probably being the easiest). Due to all of this the proper choice is going to be very subjective based on the shooter.
 
Consider the Kel-Tec P-3AT in Hard Chrome.

I had serious problems with the Tomcat, and have read about a lot of other users with serious problems as well.
 
Kahr PM-9 or S&W 642, either way she could not go wrong.

Personally I would prefer the auto, but this is her choice, and if she can shoot both before buying I would recommend doing so.
 
SW 340PD .38/.357 (w/lasergrips) (I think the cylinder may be uncomfortable)

Kel-tec P3AT .380 (I think this would fit just right)

Kahr PM9 9mm (I think this would still be too big for chosen carry method)
 
the kel-tecs are nice but unless she's willing to ring any gun out in a relatively stringent prelim test run then i'd vote revolver. definatly keep it as light as possible or she wont want to carry it. i know i dont want to carry anything heavy in general, let alone high on my chest. why not a small frame detective special or a lady smith? i'd stay away from rugers. great great guns, but i think they are just too beefy for a backup.
 
When I was still an active LEO I carried a S & W 642 in a holster that attached to my bullet resistant vest straps. It was a simple move to rip open the shirt zipper and pull out the weapon. At first I tried to carry it in an ankle holster. I got into several foot pursuits while wearing this rig. It slowed me down. It kept striking my ankle. :cuss:
 
I just wonder what makes a snubbie smaller than the Glock 27, which would be the ideal choice (size exempted).
 
I just bought a Kel-tec 3AT .380 about week ago $245 . I already had a kel-tec 32 for about two years never any problem with about 400 rds of different ammo . It just shot very low even at ten yards. Tried a friend's 3AT who is into kel-tecs and it is the reason I bought this one.
I could not believe such accuracy was possible in such a light small mouse gun.
Right out of the box I shot 15 rounds of 5 each UMC 95gr ball, 5 Mag -Tec 95gr.HP,5 Win.95gr.White Box BEB, Flat Tip all to point of aim center hold into a 8"x 14" piece of cardboard at ten yards all went into about 3 inches.
This was standing and shooting offhand with 60 year old eyes and arthritic hands.
Called my wife who has never shot very much and she proceeded to do the same except the group open up come.
The 32 and the 380 Kel-tec unlike the P-11 are striker fired like the Glock. They have a very good trigger about 5 or 6 pounds with a long pull. This contributes greatly to their accuracy. They are also are a locked-breech system like the 1911 and not a blow back like most.
I then moved the target to a measured 20 yards and put the same three different brands 15 into a 6 in. paper plate again standing offhand center hold.
I can't speak to reliability yet [not enough rounds through it] but I will say I never had a problem with the 32 and my friend has two 32's and his .380 which shoots as well as mine and the only trouble he had was with the first 32 which was one of the first off the line and he sent it back and has not had any trouble with it since and he has several hundred more rounds through all of his than I have.
I will be putting mine through the workout ringer soon.
I'm fixing to buy another for my wife. I've owned quite a few handguns in my 60 years [ and still do] and have mostly been a revolver man. In a back- up, deep concealment role and when a larger gun just cannot be carried, for weight, for size , for reliability, for power to size ratio , for price and customer service I don't think they can be matched.
Hope this helps. God Bless.
 
OLDer J frame Revolver, is my first suggestion.

Proven in this very role being a BUG.
RIG Grease takes care of perspiration concerns. I would go with a blued one - Model 36 for instance. Qualified gunsmith to make DAO only, bob the hammer .

All carbon steel, will assist with less felt recoil. Access needs to be with either hand/abilty to shoot weak handed.

Model 37, Alloy and carbon steel is another, being lighter carries easier, will be more felt recoil. Not that bad, training is key. Beats these new alloys all the way around...

I would NOT use a newer alloy,( Ti, Si) ammo restrictions, the stupid locks, and if hurt and having to use one...recoil is going to really hurt and perhaps not allow effective follow up shots. Carbon steel is best, alloy and CS as in Model 37 next best.

If matters get serious, and being a BUG the situation indeed will be, the RELIABLE operation of a firearm with either hand, in any position -upside down, downed man , on side..."port up - port down" , having been shot, cut, stabbed and weak from injuries...no time to do a Tap Rack Bang because of Limpwristing - or any other malf. Malfs like confined spaces and steering wheels or, doors not allowing slide to operate as should.

.38spl being a low pressure rd , if fired in a confined space is less likely to ruin her hearing.

Not a place for stupid political locks on a gun, not a time for bean counter inferior metallurgy to fail...A proven reliable OLDer J frame BUG to stop an immediate threat - NOW!

In undercover work, one does not need a shiny gun. One does not always need to draw questions about a "new design costing a lot of money". One does not often need to give off impressions of being firearm savvy. A used Police trade in Model 36 ( or similar blue gun) can be unobtrusive, and if asked, " I stole it" , " I found it at a Pawn shop", "It was in the car we stole", "in the house we broke into"...who cares? Make up something to tell the BGs associating with - something.

One UC buddy of mine- chided about his antique wheel gun "he stole", Was given a Glock 19 to use by his new "associates", he carried it. He carried the 36 as well. Sure the 19 was stolen, still he had a role to play and did so. These 'associates" were bad folks and he was accepted into their world. He was given a M16 / too..."need a backseat gun dude...here". I didn't type AR 15 for reason...

Also, for BUG BUG...NAA .22 Mag Mini- Revolver, maybe even two...depends on her UC role.

I am not a LEO, never been one. In a former life I learned from LEO, UCs, and others. I was "prime" to be a target for kidnapping. So my last ditch "gotta do something" even if I was overwhelmed and outnumbered, being marched to the store at gunpoint..and later to back of shop and have my head used for a target after they got what they came for - or - put in the trunk of vehicle for later fun...

'I gotta piss', I kept one where I could access thru my fly. I had another either in pocket or under my shirt where being patted down would not be felt ( hopefully). I had two handcuff keys on person and small razors on person accessible from hands in front, or back, to cut rope. My knives were figured to be taken with the primary guns...if things got that bad.

Just what some Mentors and Elders shared. Some seasoned LEOs and some seasoned Military folks like Rangers and Spl Forces passed onto me.

--

If...IF...since this lady LEO is used to a Glock, the Glock 26 would my suggestion as she is used to using it, same MOA.

She needs as much relialble confidence with Proven firearms as she can have.
And Training with these, in various conditions, types of dress and in vehicles.

IMO/ IME

Regards,

Steve
 
Seecamp in 380. Same size as the 32 but packs a 380 punch.

Makes a PM9 look like a Desert Eagle in comparison.
 
I carried a S&W 442 for years in a holster laced in with my boot. You can't beat the J-frame for realiability. Especially with the internal hammer - you can truly fire it from within a coat pocket. I recommend a similar handgun and form of carry.
 
I, like many others recommend the j-frame. I always have mine with me and has never failed me when training. Luckily i have never had to use it other than training. The keltec is a good choice but it would take some training and i am unsure how much training time she would have.
 
My first choice would be a SW 642. Stainless to prevent rust, alloy for lighter weight inside the vest, .38 will do the job when loaded appropriately, and a backup gun absolutely must work. Revo's are much better suited to this kind of duty than most semi-auto's.

A distant second choice would be the Kel-Tec P3AT. It's much flatter and lighter, but it is a semi-auto and will require more maintenance given how it's going to be carried. Also, Kel-Tec's bluing is not very durable, so if she goes this route, strongly encourage her to go with the hard chrome slide and barrel for corrosion resistance. I don't trust .380 as much as I do .38, but loaded with FMJ or Golden Sabres it will do the job if she does her part. Just make sure she wrings it out well at the range as Kel-Tec's are mostly affordable, reliable guns, but bad ones do sem to make it out occasionally.


W
 
Also considered a backup

My plan was to use a bellyband holster over my vest with some velcro on the inside to hold secure to vest. My G26 would be under my left pit or maybe rotated around to the front some. Haven't done it yet.
 
I forgot to mention, if its going to be kept that close to her skin its going to be exposed to sweat and moisture. Alloy or tupperware for sure!
Click to expand...

Women don't sweat, they glow. duh.... Anyway, there are so many great options for a BUG that its hard to say exactly which one to go with, but for me, my top three would be either a Kel-Tec P3AT, stoked with Silvertips, a Kahr, and then maybe a Rohrbaugh. If you don't mind pain and just want a last ditch gun, you could always go with a Downsizer, but man....... (or, woman, as it were...). I know a lot of people will roast me over the coals for saying this, but you may want to take a gander at a Taurus Millenium Pro. The older ones had some issues, but those issues have been rectified.
 
I'm sorry, but unless the lady in question is VERY endowed, a revolver where she's planning on carrying it would probably not work. Maybe we need a diagram of where this is planned on going (just a simple sketch would help enormously).

Someone mentioned the Seecamps: for a "bust gun", I can't agree more. I've got the .32, and my wife has made it disappear in her cleavage more than once (she's a 38C). The .380 (from what I understand) is just about the same size. And in all stainless, fairly sweat resistant). One point against the Seecamp though: she should spend a LOT of time practicing with it, as it has a fairly stout muzzle flip (and is kinda tricky to hit with).

Another option (that's easier to use, but more expensive) would be a Colt Mustang of one flavor or another...
 
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