HD handgun for a petite woman?

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gbran ~

That's a good point.

However, if you can find one range that rents firearms, you're in good shape. It's worth driving quite a ways to get that chance, too.

Even in the most limited rental shop, it will generally be possible to sample at least one revolver in .38 and/or .357, at least one 1911-pattern gun in .45 ACP, at least one Glock or Glock-type gun in 9mm, at least one Sig-type gun in .40. There will often (not always) be an opportunity to rent some kind of .380 as well.

That gives you a very general introduction to the feel of different platforms and the recoil from different calibers ... and provides a fairly solid foundation upon which to build when the newcomer begins handling for-sale firearms that cannot be test fired. She'll understand better the trade offs between weight and recoil control, and she'll have a more natural understanding of where her finger is supposed to fit on the trigger when she measures the gun in her hand, after she's handled a few guns in different platforms and calibers. This is essential knowledge that will help her a lot in her hunt, even if none of the guns she shoots during her exploration are the specific model she ends up buying.

Newcomers to the handgun world need information. They need to learn stuff like how to handle a firearm safely, what the laws are that govern the use of a gun, how to load/unload the gun, how to care for the gun. They need to learn stuff like why to choose one gun rather than another for defense, and they need to do some significant soul-searching to discover if armed self-defense is right for them -- if it fits within their ethical, religious, and moral paradigms.

None of this can be simply handed to them on a silver platter, together with a gift-wrapped gun.

The newcomer has to seek the knowledge out for herself, and internalize it.

Friends can make this knowledge-seeking process a bit easier, but (this is important) friends cannot simply learn what the newcomer needs to know. The newcomer is the one who needs that knowledge, not the helpful friend. The most the friends can really do is gather resources and point the newcomer in the right direction so that her process of learning what she needs to learn is as painless as possible.

When someone steps in and does all the research, narrowing down all her choices, and then presents the newcomer with a very narrow and strictly-limited set of guns to choose from, he robs the newcomer of some very important baby steps along her personal journey to self-defense. Maybe she'll overcome this handicap, or maybe she won't -- but it IS a handicap.

So the new shooter, or the prospective new shooter, needs information and encouragement. She doesn't need someone standing over her robbing her of her confidence by overtly saying or even just implying that she is too weak, too non-mechanical, too incompetent, too ... whatever ... to learn what she needs to know. She doesn't really need spoon-feeding, but she does need someone to show her where the food is and to hand her the spoon. And she really doesn't need someone to offer her a choice only between Gun A and Gun B, leaving her, in her still-ignorant state, to choose between the two based solely on whichever one looks "cute" to her eye. Listening to a woman choose a gun based solely on the cute factor is a red-flag signal that her helpful, gun-knowledgeable friend has failed her.

So ... don't "narrow" the choices for her, k? Instead, seek out a wide variety of guns that might be suitable, and let her do the narrowing herself. Don't limit her to just revolvers or just semi-autos. Don't limit her to just DAOs, to just DA/SA, to just SA, to just striker-fired. Don't limit her to one caliber, either. Instead, find a good example of each type and discuss with her the pros and cons of each type as she handles it and checks out its fit in her hand. Let her do her own narrowing as she learns. Discuss ammunition choices with her too. As you do that, she'll be learning what she needs to learn and you'll be helping her internalize the resolve she will need if she is going to defend herself with a firearm.

pax
 
yeah, 22mag is good. maybe 38spl with light loads if she is afraid of recoil. she'll get over that with time. trying a few guns before purchase is a good idea. // FYI: envonge(post #27) has been PM-ing members with curse words for no apparant reason. avoid talking with envonge, he's bad for this group
 
My wife is 5' 6", petite, and has very small hands (size 4 wedding ring). However, she prefers shooting my 1911 in .45 ACP or my friend's compact .45 over a .22 lr or 9mm any day of the week. She feels that the 9mm is a pop-gun and not much fun to shoot because it doesn't recoil. Plus 1 to what has been said here at least a dozen times already: let her shoot and tell you what she likes.

On a similar note, I find that until you get into the .44 Magnum power level women are generally more tolerant of recoil than men. I think it might have something to do with expectations going in. A man knows the gun will kick and tries to over think/over grip it so he doesn't look like a girly-man. Women just grab the gun the way they were taught and pull the trigger. Less testosterone = better accuracy in my experience (at least for beginning shooters).

-Polish
 
9mm a pop-gun? depends on the gun. Detonics Pocket 9mm is compact & delivers a surprising "pop" to your hand. a full size auto like 1911 types will absorb enough recoil for a woman provided her hands are large enough
 
I'd go with a used 3" or 4" K frame S&W in .38Special or .357Magnum, loaded with .38s.

There are a LOT of .38Special loads. Don't presume that she HAS to shoot loads that would take out a BMP.

I'd rather have a .38Special revolver and shoot 148gr. wadcutters in it than use a .32Magnum.
 
I second a steel-framed Kahr in 9mm - though I have K40 in .40 for my wife and recoil is not much of a problem.

miko
 
just fyi, the whole point of this thread was to get some ideas because the last thing I wanted to do was try to make her shoot something that would turn her off to shooting.

ok, range trip. She loved my smith and wesson .22A. said the grips were a bit big, but she didn't mind the recoil, obviously. took one shot with my kimber 5" .45 and said she didn't want to shoot it again. Hmmm....thinking about maybe loading up some light .38's and letting her try that in my gp100. the only thing with that gun is the factory grips are huge. the stock grips seem to fill my hands completely.

she's about 5'2" and 100 pounds, needless to say she has small hands.
 
ok, range trip. She loved my smith and wesson .22A. said the grips were a bit big, but she didn't mind the recoil, obviously. took one shot with my kimber 5" .45 and said she didn't want to shoot it again.

Okay, you've got upper and lower limits for recoil then. Good. She can cross all .45-caliber guns off her "possibles" list, since the recoil is simply not going to get better for her in a hand-friendly smaller gun. She still needs to try a .38 and a 9mm and possibly a .40 and a .380 if you can find one for her to try. After shooting one each of those, she'll probably have at least one caliber she's willing to shoot and that will be where she concentrates the rest of her gun hunt -- on guns of that caliber.

In semi-autos, I'm personally a big fan of the 9mm round for beginners. It's big enough for defensive use, but has a gentle enough recoil that a newbie can usually avoid developing a bad flinch from it. It's also very inexpensive to shoot, meaning you can get lots of rounds downrange for practice, and it's available in a lot of different platforms, including most of the small-hand-friendly guns on the market. None of this is to say that it's the only option, not by a long shot, but if she finds the caliber friendly at all there are a lot of good guns out there in 9mm that will fit the small-hands bill for her.

Has she expressed a preference for revolvers or for semi-autos, or is that still up for grabs?

pax
 
Excellent thread!, As a firearms instructor I have had hundreds of female students within the category you describe. In west central Florida, ( where I teach), the following are the most popular that I see for petite women. These are ones that they bring to the class and/or end up purchasing eventually and it becomes their go to carry gun/purse gun/etc.

Revolvers:
1. Smith J Frames: (By far!!!!!!!!!). in .38+P, or in .357MAG (women tend to use .38+P in their .357MAGs as carry loads, obviously manageable load and very respectable stopping power). (a few carry .32H&R chamberings).
2. Taurus/Rossi snubbies and J frame type clones. : same as above, more affordable. (.38/.357/.32H&R)
3. Charter Arms undercover/undercoverette: As calibers as above, IN THE RECENT PAST, they are making a comeback, very affordable and lightweight. Strong ratings from GunTests. Reliable, but not a durable plinker for sure.

Autos.

1. Beretta Tomcat in .32ACP. I have no idea why in such large numbers, but the local women here are IN LOVE with these guns. why? Here is what they tell me, NO RACKING OF THE SLIDE, tip up barrell, very manageable recoil even with Silvertips or Gold Dots. My response, well, a .32ACP is better than nothing. It can be respectable with proper shot placements, and it women can shoot it better and more accuratly, I would rather have them proficient with a .32ACP than praying and spraying with a .40SW. #1 purse automatic with women around here, maybe the local gunshops are pushing them or the local Beretta reps, but its a reliable and functional mousegun.

2. Bersa Thunder .380ACP. I agree, best value for the money, PERIOD!
and now with the low profile snag free CCW version, well, I got a few myself.
As reliable as any PPK ,CZ, taurus, or SIG in the same caliber. For a under $300 gun, its a steal.


3. Glock 26 9mm. I would say its tied with the top 3 or very close, why? Name recognition, reliability and dependability, and excellent shootability for women with small hands, A few also love the G19, but larger to conceal in a purse, depending on purse size.


Hope it helps.
 
she hasn't espressed a preference to semi's or revolvers. I think a trip to the S&W range is in order....that way she can try both and see what she likes. I was also thinking along the lines of a .38 or 9 mm......but hey she might like something else, they are a good place to start though

Thanks Pax and 40SW, your posts were very helpful
 
Don't judge recoil sensitivity too quickly.
My wife has a Colt Agent 2" snubby in .38 Spl.
She shoots it just fine. It hurts my hand, so I don't like shooting it.
A small-frame .38 revolver would be ideal if she is comfortable with it. The lady in question needs to decide for herself by shooting one.
Remember there are lower- velocity defense loads that might mitigate recoil. Lastly, any reloader should be able to come up with a load adequate for most SD purposes without being hard to handle.
 
That S&W 22A is available with wood target grips. The standard grips have been compared to a 2X4. I think they are terrible.

Another thought: You might consider one of those Eastern European PPK knock-offs in .32 ACP. They go for well under $200 in excellent condition, and they are reportedly quite reliable. Being all steel, recoil should be mile with that .32.

Lastly, if all else fails, don't rule out a .22 or even .22 mag. One of my house guns is a 9-shot DA H&R .22 revolver. Occasionally I carry a NAA Black Widow in .22 Mag.

A good example might be a Taurus M94
 
You have some great advice up above here. I can only add that when I took a women friend out who wanted house protection, she tried many different guns and what surprised me is she shot my 38/44 Outdoorsman the best and a 1911 45 acp 2nd best. She liked the 1911 45acp the most so that is what she bought.

She is a darn good shot with it!

I still wonder about it though. Why a 1911, but she likes it and is comfortable with it.
 
Will she shoot for center of mass? Or will she aim for the arms and legs, and (as someone above mentioned) have the handgun used on her? As others have suggested, self-defense course should be included.
Cordially, Jack
 
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:confused::confused::confused:

Will she shoot for center of mass? Or will she aim for the arms and legs, and (as someone above mentioned) have the handgun used on her

Why do you think she would do this? Where did THAT idea come from? The woman wants a gun for home defense. I suspect that pretty much speaks to her willingness to use the gun effectively..... :scrutiny:

Springmom
 
Could she really ...? http://www.corneredcat.com/Mindset/really.aspx

A quote from that article:
Occasionally the "Could you really...?" comes from a man who has quaint notions about women's physical capabilities and odd beliefs about any woman's emotional resolve. Were it not for the fact that women ask this question of other women nearly as often as men do, I might be tempted to slap the sexist label on the question itself. It isn't. But there's no denying that sometimes the question comes from men who are motivated by some very offensive ideas. I've never found a good way to deal with such people except to ignore them and move on. You can't please everyone!

I agree that training is a good thing, and that if there's any doubt in her mind that she can do this thing, she needs to do some serious soul-searching.

pax
 
Or will she aim for the arms and legs, and (as someone above mentioned) have the handgun used on her?
Can you cite an instance where that actually happened?

Anti-gunners have been giving me this as an excuse for why women shouldn't have guns AT ALL for over twenty years. If one of them can give me an example tomorrow, It'll be the FIRST one in all that time.
 
XavierBreath makes some very good points about a shotgun. Perhaps that is something that she can try as well. 20 ga shotguns aren't bad at all in the recoil department, especially with lighter loads IMHO. And though the .410 doesn't get much respect by some, I still consider it a more than viable self defense weapon. And it has less less perceived recoil than a 20 (to me anyway). I freely admit that my experience with shotguns is limited, though I intend to rectify that in the future.

I assume she lives alone, so there is no need to go "house clearing" in a SHTF scenario, something I would have to do as I have a 10 month old little boy to protect (for that, I do prefer the compactness/maneuverability of a handgun). My sister, who lives alone, is considering a HD gun. However, she admits that she doesn't have a lot of time to devote to marksmanship training. I therefore suggested she consider/try a pump shotgun of some type. God forbid it ever happens, her best option in a home invasion would be to take up a good defensive position and wait for the police to arrive.

Hope this helps!
 
Most of the petite women shooters I know prefer 1911 pattern guns chambered in .45 ACP. Of course, most all of my friends who shoot very much like 1911s in .45.

Point is, there's not much in the way of physical disability that would seriously limit one's ability to shoot whatever caliber and platform they wanted. Provided they had sufficient training and practice to overcome any specific challenges. And that's the biggest issue.

She could go to the music store and plink out "Smoke on the Water" on every guitar in the shop and decide that she likes Fender Strats more than Gibson Les Pauls - so that's what she buys and takes home and sets on a stand in the living room and never touches again.

Until, on that fateful day, comes a knock at the door: "Hi, I'm the manager for Deep Purple, we need somebody to sit in for Ritchie tonight at the Metrodome. Can you do it?"

Except, instead of Bruce Payne at the door it's going to be some lowlife with unspeakable intentions, and instead of a Fender Strat it's going to be any firearm that she only shot once on the day she bought it, and instead of a tounge-in-cheek metaphor it's going to be life and death.

Far more important than her selection of tool is that she get the proper training - and enough of it - and regular practice sessions so that she's able to put that tool to use.

Otherwise, she might just find herself in front of 20,000 screaming fans trying to remember if G is the third fret or the fifth.

Joe
 
Let her try a bunch out and see what she likes. Don't be the typical guy and try to point her toward a snub revolver. Children can shoot service caliber guns and so can any adult.
 
How about a Smith and Wesson 317?

At least get her some Fox Labs OC spray in the meantime. Maybe even a 3" folding knife would be in order?
 
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