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Back up guns.

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Ron James, Sep 19, 2007.

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  1. Ron James

    Ron James Member

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    Perhaps my views are a little old fashioned or outdated, so I'll ask for a few opinions. How many people , especially long term carriers, ex-law enforcement and other ex-professionals feel a back up gun is necessary for every day, day in, day out CCW carry. Just the average person making a living, chopping wood, picking up the kids, slopping the pigs type carry. I'm not referring to on duty carry. He**, I used to carry my primary weapon, a back up, and a shotgun and baseball bat in my patrol car. I'm referring to every day carry. My opinion which I have made known, is that one gun is enough, but maybe I'm out of step. What say you out there?
     
  2. Vonderek

    Vonderek Member

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    Murphy's Law. Anything mechanical can fail. I'd rather reach in my pocket for my BUG than use my primary as a club.
     
  3. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Actually, this is a variant on Finagle's Law. Murphy's Law holds that "If there's more than one possible outcome of a job or task, and one of those outcomes will result in disaster or an undesirable consequence, then somebody will do it that way."

    One gun is enough for what? For self defense? One gun will be enough, or it won't.

    One gun may be enough might be good for your situation, but the statement does not apply to any other person for which you don't have a complete understanding of their situation.
     
  4. insidious_calm

    insidious_calm Member

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    Personally it depends on what and where I am carrying. If I am carrying a fullsize handgun like my para p14 then I usually carry a glock 26 on my ankle. Often though, I don't carry a fullsize gun. I've found that the glock 26 by itself IWB is more comfortable for me if I'm out for an extended period. I find this to be especially true when it's very hot. Look twice at the guy in the khaki shorts and the untucked button down shirt. ;)

    One thing I always carry though, is a reload for my primary gun, whatever it may be. I also always carry a cellphone, and if out at night a small surefire light. I usually round it all out with a leatherman tool or small folding knife.

    I think you should make that determination based on what you are comfortable with. While I admit that there is a certain level of security felt when I go out and about armed like mad max in beyond thunderdome, :D there is definately a balance between feeling secure about having more than one gun at hand and real comfort in not having to carry the extra weight and clothing that carrying multiple guns entails.

    I.C.
     
  5. 230RN
    • Contributing Member

    230RN Marines raising the left-leaning Pisa tower.

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    Depends on a mix of variables, including time of day, weather, destination.

    I always carry extra mag or cylinder-full for any gun.

    Mix of guns and equipment:

    .45 in belt under a jacket if it's cool, under a Hawaaian shirt or in a belly pack if it's warm.

    .38 in an ankle holster.

    .380 in a belly pack.

    Really bright flashlight.

    Occasionally a quick-deploying folding knife.

    Steak or long kitchen knife.


    Time of day:

    Usually one gun in daytime, plus BUG at night

    Taking out trash in dark: Usually revolver in pocket or belt, flashlight, steak knife (Lion Medicine)

    Weather:

    If it's wet out (snow, rain, puddles), I'll avoid using an ankle holster. Got splashed by a car once, had to "go to earth" to dry out gun.

    Hot: Ankle holster and/or belly pack with a small auto, sometimes both depending on destination variable.

    Cold: That's where I have fun. I once carried three guns around just 'cause I could, not because I was expecting anything. This fall I'm going to try for four guns... again, just 'cause I can. My son tells me that when he went through his CCW class, one of the instructors hauled out no less than fourteen guns, just to demonstrate the concealment possibilities.

    Destination:

    Bank inside, at least one gun. This is usually just part of general errand-running, during the day, so I'm usually carrying two. I pay cash for everything.

    For drive-up window on Saturdays, just one in belt, one is sometimes in the glove-box.

    Movies or gadding about at night, always at least two, plus flashlight, plus knife.

    Daytime in City: Usually two guns, disposed as described above, according to weather, etc.

    Going to work: Zero. None in car, none on person. No ammo, no knives, no nuthin'. I park in a really secure building surrounded by armed guards, monstrous tire-ripping barricades, mannions all around it. No real need for my own iron, In the morning, I walk twenty feet to my car, go to work without getting out of the car, drive into the building, and go to the office. At night I get in my car, leave the building, get home, and walk twenty more feet to my front door. If I feel the need to carry after work, I'll park in a private lot and leave the hardware secured in the car. Worth the ten bucks to park in a private lot to avoid lawyers, hassles, handcuffs....
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2007
  6. romma

    romma Member

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    I don't carry a bug,,, but here is a little story for you:

    One day after carrying my Walther PPK/S around for several months alternating with my other carry pieces here and there. One day I decided I should give it a little canoe time in the back yard ( Psst, I have a canoe in the back that certainly won't float with all the holes in it)..

    Anyhow, I aim, safety off, squeeze trigger and nuthin' happened.

    It would have sucked if I were anywhere and ever had to draw it...
     
  7. Dirty Bob

    Dirty Bob Member

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    romma:
    Glad you found out the problem in a safe environment. IMHO, all carry and/or backup guns should be fired regularly. I do this to rotate my carry ammo and to test my cleaning/lubrication regimen.

    Regards,
    Dirty Bob
     
  8. Ghost Tracker

    Ghost Tracker Member

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    It's kinda' like what I learned in Flight School - "The only time you have too much fuel...is when you're on fire."

    The right BUG is almost forgotten until that moment arrives when you NEED it badly. I carry a CCW everywhere I'm not expressly forbidden by the conditions of my permit to do so. AND I carry a BUG about 75% of that time.
     
  9. romma

    romma Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree Dirty Bob, however, real life can catch up with sometimes... Although I don't change out carry ammo too much. Usually the chambered round to keep from rechambering the round...
     
  10. Dirty Bob

    Dirty Bob Member

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    The Reverse Backup: the "always" gun

    One approach I see occasionally is the "always" gun. Mine is a Kel-Tec 9mm. It's 100% reliable, and I carry it whenever I legally can.

    I'm thinking of adding larger handgun this winter, when I can finally hide it, but the Kel-Tec will remain, in the same place as always. I don't think of the 9mm as a backup in this case, but rather the bigger gun as the second handgun.

    Regards,
    Dirty Bob
     
  11. nelson133

    nelson133 Member

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    As a person who make a living maintaining machinery, I know that mechanical things fail unexpectedly and always at the worst time. The only time I don't carry one bug is when I carry two.
     
  12. NCHornet

    NCHornet Member

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    I CC everywhere I legally can. The majority of the time it is a G23 in a Bianchi Carryloc on my side and either a NAA Guardian in 32acp or 380acp in a Nemisis holster in my front pocket. The reason for the second gun isn't that I worry about the glock failing, it's simply under certain circumstances having a hand in your front pocket is much less noticeable than pulling you shirt back and drawing the weapon. Depending on the situation I would have to decide which gun to go for, and if the Glock ever did fail, I will be darn glad I had another gun with me. I carry a single mag and 16 rounds of 40 cal, I don't see a need for another Glock mag, but I do carry two extra mags for the Guardians, they are very small and take up little space. I also carry a Surefire Night Fighter II flashlight and one of many SD folders. Sometimes it isn't possible for me to carry the G23, when this happens one of the Guardians then becomes primary, and I have never felt under gunned.
     
  13. M92FS

    M92FS Member

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    In case your primary weapon failed, that's what a BUG is for, better be safe than sorry. :)
     
  14. AlaskaErik

    AlaskaErik Member

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    I've never carried a BUG. My Glock has been 100 percent reliable so far. The chances of having to draw it outside of work are pretty slim. The chances of getting into a gun fight are even slimmer. The chances of getting into a gun fight and the Glock not firing are so slim that it's simply not worth carrying a BUG. Besides, if you're in CQC range and your primary doesn't fire, you'll never get the BUG out fast enough.
     
  15. romma

    romma Member

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    I just don't want to carry 2 guns around with me plain and simple. In spite of my carry gun failing when it did...

    Who knows though, once upon a time, I didn't carry at all...
     
  16. BikerRN

    BikerRN member

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    I've carried for over twenty years and I've carried a BUG for over five years.

    You cannot guarantee that your "Primary" gun will be accessable to the hand you have available to draw with if you get in to a self defense encounter. Usually self defense encounters are fights that turn in to gunfights. They are "up close and personal".

    Therefore I carry a BUG when I am Off-Duty. BTW, I have no obligation to "Protect and Serve" when I'm off the clock, and won't. My Off-Duty guns are to protect me and MY loved ones.

    Biker
     
  17. Mr. James

    Mr. James Member

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    The points about mechanical failures and the invariable timing thereof are well taken, but sometimes, I think we prepare with the greatest energy for the least likely of events (as intimated by AlaskaErik). I carry a handgun with greater consistency than I buckle my seat belts. But which event is more likely in the life of a private citizen - a shootout (with your primary weapon failing, no less), or a traffic accident?

    I don't carry two firearms for the simple reasons of convenience, comfort and a considered opinion of which events in my life are within the realm of the likely, the possible, and the so remotely possible as to be nuggatory.

    Nothing in the above is meant to denigrate those whose circumstances, experience or training lead them to carry two or more handguns. Like romma, once upon a time, I too would not have given serious consideration to carrying at all. And I never rule out an "upgrade."
     
  18. 51Cards

    51Cards Member

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    Romma --- what, might i ask, was the problem with the PPK/S?

    and Ghost Tracker, I was also taught that, among other useless things: the fuel left in the truck; the altitude above me; and the runway behind me. Funny how these things stick with you.
     
  19. romma

    romma Member

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    Firing pin not striking, but it is not broken. At Smith and Wesson right now actually. Waiting to hear.
     
  20. isp2605

    isp2605 Member

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    BikerRN wrote:
    BikerRN is exactly right. Carrying 2 guns is really not a backup but a second. Backup has the connotation that if your primary goes down that you go for the other gun. In reality, for the very reasons BikerRN mentioned, it's a second gun meaning that you may have to go for which ever one is handiest to get to at the time in any given situation.
     
  21. CZ223

    CZ223 Member

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    I find this thread very interesting because

    as I have mentioned several times before in various threads I am a Glock-aholic.:D No I don't need a cure.:rolleyes: I now have 2 model 23s and and a 32 and more than likely will be aquring a 27 or 33 or both in the near future. Since I have them I figure why not try carrying more than one. Right now the obvoius choice would be to carry both 23's. I have considered ankle carry but, since bell bottoms are currently not in style, I might wait till I get one of the sub-compacts.:D Since the subject of which gun is the easiest to get to has already been brought up, I have to wonder if anyone carries one on each hip. I have trained myself to shoot with my left hand as well as the right for Cowboy action shooting and I think this might be a good way to go. The only problem then would be to figure out where to put the spare mags. Right now I carry the G23 on my right hip and a spare mag on the left as well as the cell phone and a Buck folder(clip) in my pocket.
     
  22. NCHornet

    NCHornet Member

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    One on each hip would defintely balance things out, but I feel two full size weapons is a bit much. I prefer the larger weapon on my strong side, with a Night Fighter II flashlight on my left as well as my cel phone and access to me left front pocket where one of many SD knives rest, so no room for another large SD gun. The Guardian rides nicely in the front right pocket. As I stated above I am not so much worried about the Glock failing as I am of being in a situation where drawing my Glock might draw to much attention, but I hand in my jeans pocket would not seem abnormal at all. This is just what I have found works for me.
     
  23. Pax Jordana

    Pax Jordana Member

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    Yes, but mainly for access reasons, not those of failure.

    If I've got God's Own Peacemaker stuffed down the front of my pants, six knives in each pocket and a baton in my back pocket, it won't do a derned thing if I've got my jacket zipped up.. much faster and less conspicuous than shedding layers if I just go for the 38 in my front jacket pocket :)

    And, I joke with myself, if I'm out with that buddy who is "totally gonna get [his] permit as soon as [he] gets the time" and we're in some sort of situation where we can organize a response.. I'll give him the smaller of the two.
     
  24. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

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    The odds of needing to USE any carry piece is VERY, VERY, VERY, slim. The odds of needing a 'New York Reload' ( BUG) are slim to nonexistant.
    If it gives you a feeling of security, go for it. But it is like wearing a belt, AND suspenders.
     
  25. myrockfight

    myrockfight Member

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    Help me out here 230RN


    -230 RN


    I'm not trying to be a jerk, but help me out here. You go from one extreme to the other. Three guns, possibly four to zero. Why do you think you won't come across someone robbing your house when you get back from work. If you are a "RN" (I have no idea, just a guess), you work odd hours. Right?

    You carry a gun when you take out the garbage at night, but you don't bring a gun into your own home after you have been away for what, 8 to 14 hours?

    Just something to think about ;)
     
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