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Bad feeling tonight, wish I had my pistol, but in the end it wasn't needed

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Joe7cri, Aug 13, 2006.

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  1. Joe7cri

    Joe7cri Member

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    Let me start out by saying that I live in an Anti-Gun part of NY, but I was able to get a limited CCW and with a couple of loopholes I can carry 24/7 legally. Unfortunately my Job took me into Connecticut tonight, so there was no legal way for me to carry. So here goes.

    I finished work around 11:00pm and was headed home when I got hungry so I stopped at McDonalds. While approaching the drive through I notice a man standing in the shadows near some bushes. When I pull up to the window he walks towards my van, and I notice he is obviously homeless. No big deal, but I wasn't in the giving mood tonight, and didn't want to be bothered. So he walks up near my window and begins to try and talk to me and tell me his sob story. Again, no big deal until he puts one hand under his jacket and starts fiddling around with something. At this point I'm reaching behind my seat with one hand to find my bat and hoping he doesn't have a gun. I start thinking if he pulls a gun, I'll hit him with the van. 2 minutes go by, his hand is still in the jacket moving around, my hand is on the handle of my bat, and then my food comes out. I take it and leave, but it doesn't end there. I drive about a mile up the road to a stop and shop Parking lot and begin to eat. 15 minutes later, same guy appears. Now I've had it, but I still didn't want to be confrontational, so luckily I still had my badge from my days as a EMT, I pulled it out and in a firm voice told the guy to leave, and he did rather hastily. I guess I could get into trouble for impersonating a LEO, but everything was OK in the End.

    Long Post for a non incident, but it's times like this when I wish there was a National Unrestricted CCW Law. I hope it doesn't come too late:banghead:
     
  2. rangermonroe

    rangermonroe Member

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    So, what?

    Not to be a dick, but so what? Some homless guy scared you? Why?

    Say in a firm, determined voice..."Leave me alone! Right NOW!"

    Generally, bums get it.

    Grow a pair, they don't issue them with a Kimber.
     
  3. Rafterman191

    Rafterman191 Member

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    Yes please get a grip

    If you are rattled by a homeless guy begging for some change maybe CCW isn't a good idea for you. I carry CCW and would give everything in my possession before I would use my CCW. Do a threat assessment. Use this rule. Protect yourself first with your mind, then your body (i.e leave the situation), then hands, then your CCW.
     
  4. Taurus 66

    Taurus 66 Member

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    1 mile in 15 minutes? That's saying he's walking at a brisk 4 mph. That's at a power walk speed. I wasn't aware bums were so athletic and well fed these days.

    If he was fidgeting in his pockets for something and you're without a gun, why the hell would you be reaching for a bat rather than accelerating away from the scene? Does McDonalds food mean that much to you?:confused:
     
  5. Joe7cri

    Joe7cri Member

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    I don't need to grow a pair, I been in plenty of fights and have the scars to prove it. The fact that he was a "bum" didn't scare me, I'm use to them. I'm 6' 295 lbs. and extremely muscular, I don't usually fear anyone. There was just something different about this guy, hard to explain, guess you had to of been there. Sorry I don't have Nightcrawlers writing skills to accurately describe the situation, but believe me this guy will harm someone if not tonight then soon.

    As far as being a Dick, Don't worry about it. It's something your born with, you can't help it.
     
  6. Joe7cri

    Joe7cri Member

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    That's part of the problem, he didn't ask for anything (change, food, etc...), he was just kind of looking in the Van and talking about how he was homeless. Unfortunately there are plenty of homeless around here, and they usually ask "can you spare...", not this guy. It was just different. As I said earlier, I don't fear much, but I had a feeling this guy was desperate. I guess it's something that you'd need to experience first hand. Oh Well.

    Also, my current occupation combined with the company advertising on my Van makes me much more of a target then the ordinary person.

    And no I wasn't about to leave without my food. Like I said, I'm 295 and hungry:D
     
  7. wdlsguy

    wdlsguy Member

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    Connecticut can issue you a "Non-resident Permit To Carry Pistols Or Revolvers". According to packing.org, you will need an unrestricted license from any state first. Since you already have a NY license, you can get one from NH or PA.

    http://www.packing.org/state/connecticut
     
  8. atlctyslkr

    atlctyslkr Member

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    Sorry you got slammed by some people on here Joe. You were probably tired from working and this was not something you wanted to deal with. What about the fundamental right to be left alone and go about your business without being harassed? I don't feel the need to pull a gun everytime a stranger talks to me but at 12:25 a.m. you better have good reason.
     
  9. shooter45

    shooter45 Member

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    I think I know what you are saying. If you can't escape, can't run over the BGs, and can't whip them, it feels good to know you have a means to save your life. If that means isn't in your pocket, you feel a little less confident.
     
  10. Tearlachblair

    Tearlachblair Member

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    I wouldn't. :cool:

    Give me a break here and, most of all, give Joe a break. I was once on a camping trip and had some homeless guy that looks like a psychopath trying to peek in my van and see what I had in there. Joe wasn't scared, he was perceiving a possible threat. Anyone doesn't view a grubby panhandler-type guy as a potential assailant is way underdeveloped in streetsmarts.:neener:
     
  11. cray

    cray Member

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    I think it's safe to say that a significant number of the assaults begin EXACTLY that way ... an unsolicited contact ... and if he returns or is persistent, he's waiting on something. Every such contact should put you on alert. Maybe there's a plan in the works, maybe he sees a "weakness" in you (not you personally); who knows. I think in the end, I'd have wished for my pistol as well (if I didn't have it). If he had pulled out a gun or a knife and was ready and willing to use either one, with all the room you have in the car to swing a bat, you may have done better grabbing your .. _____________ (fill in the blank).

    Remember, you always have the option to drive away .. and that would have been preferable to actually shooting the guy, even if you were armed.
     
  12. highdesert

    highdesert Member

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    I think you got treated a little roughly with your post. Maybe you'd get better advice over at Strategies & Tactics. Your adverse reaction seems pretty reasonable to me, and I've seen homeless people that weren't put off just by a firm "no." A lot of them think they have nothing to lose by being aggressive because you have more to lose in standing up to them physically. I was in NYC a year ago and saw the "in your face til you give me money" technique used a couple of times.

    Using your EMT badge probably wasn't the best move during the second encounter, but I can see where you'd be rattled. Driving off (again :( ) would have been a better option. I CCW, but I also started carrying pepper spray for just these sort of dubious encounters.

    highdesert
     
  13. slicknickns

    slicknickns Member

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    in a situation like that your fists are a better weapon than a handgun
     
  14. pax

    pax Member

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    Can't tell from your first post -- did you try a very firm, very loud "GO AWAY" before leaving McD's? And then he still followed you and asked again? Or did you just reach for the bat, not saying much of anything, and then drive off when your food got there?

    pax
     
  15. mete

    mete Member

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    Wake up ! Some of those "harmless homeless" are very dangerous psychopaths, drunks, on drugs and may be armed!
     
  16. akodo

    akodo Member

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    i can't say if this guy was just a bum and you are a scardie cat or if the guy was up to no good and your radar picked it up. Either way it is pretty irrelevant.

    you acted correctly by 1) being aware of your surroundings, and 2)leaving the area rather than start trouble.

    What I must say is why didn't you start the car and leave a second time once the bum approached again?


    Finally, how would your CCW have made you act any different? Would you have pulled it on the bum when you were in McDonalds? Would you have pulled it on the bum when you were eating in your van?

    If you had your CCW, the correct actions in all cases would to have been to drive away.
     
  17. gitarmac

    gitarmac Member

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    I think you did OK

    It's easy to see in hindsight maybe the guy was a harmless bum but then maybe again he wasn't. If you had your CCW you probably wouldn't have felt so vulnerable and not likely to go off half cocked and shoot somebody prematurely as some are implying.

    I knew a guy that used his amvets card much in the same way. He was a huge strong guy but for some reason seemed to be a target for drunks with muscles. One time he came upon some "youths" vandalizing something and pulled out his amvets card and said "Stop, amvets!" and they ran off. This was in the early 80's before people had cellphones and stuff.

    If most homeless people were harmless then they would be wandering in the safest parts of town.

    I don't have a lot of empathy for bums that bother and intimidate others. If you don't want people to get defensive with you then don't act threatening.
     
  18. davec

    davec Member

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    lol

    You're an NFL defensive tackle?
     
  19. Geno

    Geno Member

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    The High Road

    Maybe you did well, maybe you could have done better. Hind sight, right? The day I become perfect, I will tell you how bad you did. At least you didn't eat and drive, thus causing a fatal accident, right? Glass is half full.

    Doc2005
     
  20. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    :rolleyes:

    I love how some of you guys can tell the difference between a "homeless guy begging" and a mugger using a ruse to get close enough to rob you. I'm sure you'd have completed that Super Bowl winning touchdown pass from your La-Z-Boy too.

    Anyone comes close to me after dark and I must assume they intend to do me harm (of course the gun stays in the holster until I have just cause to draw).
     
  21. MadMercS55

    MadMercS55 Member

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    The bat is good, but perhaps keeping some OC spray in the vehicle for times when a sidearm isn't there. Might help in addition to stern verbal commands to keep away, etc.
     
  22. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    gut feeling

    your alive you did ok
    i drove a cab on outskirts of dc in early 80's so did a g/f of mine. she had a fare that freaked her out. she described him to me i pooh poohed her fears. i got same guy a month later got same feeling she did. really bad feeling was real glad to get him outa car. 3 months later he was arrested for a string of killings.
    trust your gut. in my case its smarter than the reat of me
     
  23. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    yeah this would be better in

    strat and tact...certainly some here need to learn them some tact.
    "grow some":barf:

    Fighting a NY bum is a sure fire way to get his diseases, you give him a bloody lip and you get his aids, his Hep C, his scabies, lice... you even get his smell on you! (they're really stinky) This aint no time to fistfight:barf:

    If you have a beef with a clean cut guy and you're sure he is a "fair fighter" go ahead be all you can be, but I've spent enough time in the NY metro area to know that the last thing I want is some stinky homeless bums blood and snot and ripe sewer smell on me....:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:

    "grow some"? sophmoric comments don't contribute to the zeitgeist.
     
  24. BigO01

    BigO01 Member

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    I don't know quite how true this is but I have read that over 20 years ago muggers learned to ask to "Borrow" some money or say "can I have" it's just the same as saying give me in practical terms but in the laws eyes all they are doing is asking for a loan or a handout which isn't illegal , they will even do this when there are several of them and one victim so no one but "Blind Justice" would think it is anything but a robbery .

    Criminals don't walk around with a stamp on their forehead , as a matter of fact many years ago I saw an interview with a serial killer , looked normal , educated , soft spoken etc. etc. and often was let into his victims home on the pretense of using the phone due to a broken down car . He said he often even accepted offers for coffee or meals before he would reveal his true intentions .

    Joe7cri ignore those who have insulted you , if they run around trusting every "Homeless guy" they may not be around to trust anyone much longer .
     
  25. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    I've been through experiences in which visual contact with a bum couldn't tell me if he wanted a big mac, or to slash my throat. In the one case where the latter seemed likely, I didn't feel comfortable telling him to seek his entertainment elsehwere. Luckily, I was moving in a group at the time and one person kept him in conversation while I called 911.

    Had I been armed, I wouldn't have been justified in drawing on the guy, nor would I have done so. However, I would have been comforted in knowing that had I needed it, the final option would have been there.

    My conclusion: You're alive, so good on you. Since I wasn't there, I say this last part lightly, but if you really knew he could hurt someone in the future, why not alert the authorities?
     
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