Bad GunBroker Transaction, Am I Wrong?

[Werewolf]

Posted above the auction picture...

I bought this arsenal refinished rifle a while back,

Seemed to me that that was a pic of what you were selling not an example of what you were selling. You didnt' say you bought an arsenal refinished rifle like the one pictured below - you said, "I bought this arsenal refinished rifle".

It might seem that saying detailed pics were available would be enough for anyone to nuke out that the displayed rifle was not the one being sold but that assumes a lot about a viewer's ability to read the seller's mind.

Don't leave anything in doubt that might cause confusion when writing a seller's description. As far as I know there isn't a mystical mind link established between seller and buyer just because something is posted on the internet.

 

[Shweboner]

It might seem that saying detailed pics were available would be enough for anyone to nuke out that the displayed rifle was not the one being sold

once again, he knew it was a stock photo b e f o r e bidding, and he is a collector.



Obviously if the buyer were not a collector or someone deep into guns then we wouldnt be having this conversation. This man is no stranger to MNs and is no stranger to buying milsurp rifles. He knew he was buying a rifle sight-unseen ke knew he passed up the chance to get detailed pics, or to ask questions.

I am asking these questions based on the above facts, knowing that he didnt ask questions, and the fact the he knew it was not an actual photo.

 

[Zonamo]

Negative feedback is a killer over there. You already have a couple of neutrals and two negatives.

I think you made enough mistakes that you should seriously weigh the cost of making good with this guy vs. the cost of having his nasty comment stuck to your feedback.

 

[Lupinus]

95 is a good price from what I have looked around for them.

IMO this is an old rifle. military surplus, which for much of its shooting life was probably subjected to corrosive ammo. IMO when you buy online you take the gamble esspecialy with milsurps that it may or may not be as top notch as you were expecting. Now I am not talking about being misled that it is an excelent condition rifle and being shipped a worn down heavily used shooter grade piece of garbage, simply not quiet living up to full expectations.

Thats the gamble you take when you buy sight unseen without being able to make a close hands on inspection. If you want close hands on inspections to know every little thing before you buy do it in person, if you are buying online be willing to take the gamble it is not 100% perfect.

So no, IMO you didn't mislead the guy.

 

[steelhead]

If he takes my offer of having an uninterested 'smith check it out on my $, and that gunsmith can verify the condition of the rifle, also verify the serial #'s (just in case this collector is trying to ditch a crappy MN on me) Then I will refund his money including shipping, pay for shipping back to me, and try to find him another rifle...

Sounds reasonable.

 

[Peet]

On line auctions

And this, campers, is why I never buy from online auctions.

Talk all you want about the great deals out there; I don't care. All it takes is one -- um -- ah -- "mistake" and all the "savings" from dealing with online auctions for the past year or two are lost.

Alex, I'll take "Local, reputable dealers" for three hundred dollars.

...

What is "How not to get ripped off."

P.

 

[peaceful99]

Was there a switch made?

Shweboner
The rifle was missing for a week. It's easy to tell a laminated stock from other construction. It sounds to me the rifle he received may not be the rifle you sent. If that's so, I don't know what you can do about it.

Can he send you a picture of what he received? Does the serial number match?
Maybe UPS would make good on the deal if this is what happened.

A long shot, but maybe....

 

[Aguila Blanca]

my camera doesnt take the greatest of pictures. I felt that the stock photo accurately depicted my rifle better than my digital could do.

Its actually the same picture shown when I originally bought the rifle, I felt that it was a good one at the time, thats why I saved it, and used it in this auction. It is stock, but its darn close to the rifle I had.

A stock photo doesn't depict your rifle at all -- it depicts whatever rifle it is a picture of. It is misleading to use a stock photo without stating that it is not a photo of the actual firearm being offered.

 

[vynx]

Does it have a laminated stock or not? Forget if its a good price is it what was advertised?

I don't know about the bore but you should have been able to id a laminated stock?

 

[Shweboner]

To the best of my knowledge it was a laminate stock, that is what I bought it as from Century, and it looked vastly different (nicer) from my other MNs.

My rifle didn't look near as dark as some of the regular hardwood stocked MNs I have seen online.

 

[Majic]

the rifle is not flawed and shot really well..

that rifle was immaculate.

Since you say nothing is wrong with the rifle and obviously the buyer isn't pleased with it why suggest another gunsmith to look at it? You don't believe the first gunsmith why would you believe the second one as you won't know that person either? Just refund the money, rethink your ad, and put the rifle back up for sale.

 

[mosttoyswins]

In the end, you fairly represented your rifle in your word description and used a stock photo. If the buyer wanted more info, he/she should have emailed you and asked for it.

This about sums it up for me.

EVERYTIME I buy something on line and it is not the actual picture, I ask for pictures of the actual item.

If the seller will not provide actual pictures, I DO NOT BUY IT.

Sounds like the buyers fault to me.

 

[Shweboner]

Since you say nothing is wrong with the rifle and obviously the buyer isn't pleased with it why suggest another gunsmith to look at it?

I offered this to call his bluff on the gunsmith story. FWIW he declined the offer.



And for an update...

The buyer and I have come to an agreement to resolve our problems. Should be taken care of by the middle of next week. And it will result in my getting Pos feedback. So everyone is happy.

Thanks for all the input guys.

 

[TimboKhan]

I guess it's none of my beeswax, but what was the compromise?

 

[Shweboner]

I gave him twenty bucks.

 

[Tim Burke]

He wouldn't let a 3rd party gunsmith evaluate the weapon, and he was bought off for $20.
I've made my mind up.

 

[redneck2]

Lots of anguish and messing around for $20

 

[steelhead]

The guy was a schmuck pure and simple.....

 

[Zen21Tao]

Sorry, I had to vote that you are at fault and that your discriprion was missleading. However, I think "fraud" is a little too much though.

First, yes you used a stock photo and didn't site this. A reasonable person could have expected to receive the rifle in the photo.

Second, you basically resited the perks of the gun from what Century said (God knows I don't like Century for just such business practices) without determining for yourself whether their statements were true or not. You may not have meant to but you passed on bad info nonetheless.

As for your defense that he expected a prestine gun for $95:
I don't find this unreasonable AT ALL. Mil Surp prices on 91/30s run around $69 from places that do sell very nice pieces (e.g. AIM, SOG, etc.). The thing with 91/30s is that you pretty much take a gamble when you buy one. How much action did it see in the war and how was it treated? You may get a pristine piece barely used or a beater. A person buing from you will be AT LEAST the third owner of the weapon and it is reasonable for him to believe you if you said you ended up with a pristine piece. In fact, he did pay as much as (not less than) what he could have gotten one from an importer for. In his mind he could have chosed to pay a little more and go with you over the imported based on his belief in your description of the rifle.

NOTE: All of this is assuming that the rifle really did have the problems he says it did. If not, then it could be that he is just trying to scam you out of some $$$.

 

[Shweboner]

First, yes you used a stock photo and didn't site this. A reasonable person could have expected to receive the rifle in the photo.

I dont know how many ways I can say this so that people can understand it... HE KNEW IT WAS A STOCK PHOTO BEFORE HE BID... So that argument holds no water. Now if he thought it was an actual photo, well things would be different. But it is not the case here.

Second, you basically resited the perks of the gun from what Century said (God knows I don't like Century for just such business practices) without determining for yourself whether their statements were true or not.

Century may not be able to build a rifle to save their lives, but all they did was import these things. It was an arsenal refinish with +/- 100 rounds through it, perfect condition all around. The only question pertaining to the picture was that of the stock, which was only slightly darker than the pic... too close to tell in my opinion.

As for your defense that he expected a prestine gun for $95:

It was pristine, thats what I have been getting at. This guy is BSing me.

If I really intended to trick this guy into buying a POS, I wouldnt be wasting my time talking about it endlessly with the buyer, especially not on here. My point is that I sent this guy a really nice rifle and hes telling me that what he got looked like it was found at the bottom of the ocean. The rifle described was what I sent, he is hassling me abuot details that wouldnt even have been noticable had I taken an actual pic, things that are only distinguishable in person, etc... Secondly I provided an opportunity for buyers to request more information and to request other photos which he declined to do despite knowing the photo was not of the actual rifle... see my point.

But all is said and done, hes getting his $20 (not to mention I already discounted his shipping by $13) All will be well.

 

[BigO01]

The guys a jerk if he wanted a pristine collector grade weapon he would have demaned actual photos , not a stock one . Plain and simple he bought a 50+ year old Milsurplus probably found one at a local shop for less bought it and wants his money back from you .

I bet he wants you to eat shipping both ways also .

However you too are at fault as you should have included the great little line of "AS IS , NO REFUNDS , NO WARRANTIES real , expressed , or implied in any way , ALL SALES FINAL" This would have covered your Tail and avoided all of this garbage with A-HOLES .

 

[Snagglepuss]

I understand that he knew it was a stock photo but....... Who would buy off the internet without seeing a photo of the actual gun. (his fault for not requesting photos). I would always, no matter how crummy your photos are, post acutal pics (your responsibility). That way there is no excuse for him to complain. I would also include the as is or no returns in your description if that is your plan.

I recently sold a Browning Pro 9 on GB. It was brand new from the dealer, my local GS. I never fired it or put a loaded mag in the gun. The buyer had it shipped to a Cabela's where he asked them to inspect it. They told him that there were too many brass marks and too much powder residue for only being test fired. He mentioned it to me but was not that concerned as the gun was pristine. I was honest and described the gun to the best of my knowledge. It was the receiving dealer that put the negative thoughts in the buyers mind. This could have happened to you also with the gunsmith.