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Bad news. Hunter loses it, kills five, wounds others

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As for the media in my state, from what I've seen, the news anchors have been fishing for the term "assault weapon" to be used, though the field reports have avoided using it. I already know what the local socialist fishwrapper "Milwaukee Journal Sentinel" is going to say or will say about the incident, therefore I will not hold my nose and buy a copy. :cuss:
 
Did he shoot 10 and reload?
I don't care if the guy was white,black or green, thats not the point, he is a NUT!!
 
The St Paul Pioneer press today, 11-23, they are reporting 2 important things. 1- He had a 20 round clip in the gun that was found empty upon arrest. 2- Which is more telling, he removed the scope from his gun prior to shooting the victims. For us that hunt in the heavy woods and brush of northern Wisconsin and Minnesota know that is done for really only 1 reason, to aquire targets and shoot much faster than if you had to find them in a scope. Reads alot like premeditation in my book.
 
His wife was quoted in saying "we dont care what they say, we know he didn't do it"

right lady, so who did? :scrutiny:

one of the sheriffs said vang was calm, in his words "freakishly calm"
 
The way I see it is that most people are just not KILLERS. They just do not think that way. This gave the guy with an SKS a real advantage. When he returned, he knew what he was going to do....he intended to kill as many of those hunters as he could. I have read that even in combat, some will just not fire their rifle, and I imagine it would be a lot worse when you are not at war. I believe it was Jeff Cooper that came up with the White, Yellow, and Red threat levels (White, safe no threat....Yellow, I may have to kill someone....Red, I may have to kill that person)....most people even when in danger are in White. And without fail have a REAL hard time going from White to Red. As for me, I never go up into the National Forest unarmed. I always carry a locked and loaded .45 on my hip, and a rifle, and very seldom go alone....and I spend most of my time in condition Yellow...unless I'm asleep. Some say this is being paranoid, but I say it is just common sense in this day and age to be aware of your surroundings. It will be very interesting to see how all this plays out, and to hear more of the story. I will say one thing though...that fellow was commiting armed treaspass, which is a felony from the get go. That seems to demostate intent, and I would have been VERY careful on approach, and even after the fact. The big mistake the hunters made was that it looked like they thought they were safe after the treaspasser left....they should not have assummed that, I know I would'nt have.
 
It's probably time to drop a note to Mr. Bush at:

President of the United States and point out that incidents like this hunter shooting often result in the over reaction of liberals and calls for more gun banning. Ask him to give things a chance to calm down before he makes any decisions regarding SKS and other rifles of it's same ilk.

You might also point out that since he is a staunch defender of the 2nd Amendment (well - he thinks he is anyway) that banning a class of firearms does little more than punish the many for the acts of a few.

I know I'm going to as soon as I get home tonight.
 
I talked to my Hmong colleague today. He doesn't know this guy at all (probably the same situation I get when people find I used to work someplace where over 2,000 people worked, thinking I'd know someone).

His comment on the incident was :"That guy must be a psycho".
 
Um, yeah, since there are 300,000 Hmong people living in the U.S., it's unlikely that any two would know each other. :rolleyes:
 
Vang details shooting spree in woods, authorities say

Vang details shooting spree in woods, authorities say
Larry Oakes and Jill Burcum, Star Tribune
November 23, 2004 VANG1124




HAYWARD, Wis. -- Chai Vang, the man accused of killing six Wisconsin hunters and wounding two others in the woods of Sawyer County on Sunday, has told investigators he only opened fire after one of the six shot at him.

That account differs sharply from that of one of the wounded.

Vang's story came out in documents released today as part of a probable cause hearing in the case before Circuit Judge Norman Yackel. Yackel ruled there is probable cause to try Vang for the shootings, set Vang's bail at $2.5 million and set his next court appearance for Dec. 20.

According to the documents, this is what Vang told investigators:

He was lost in the woods and climbed into an unoccupied deer stand. After about 15 minutes, another hunter came upon the scene, told Vang he was on private property and told him to leave. The man summoned his friends via radio. Others showed up, surrounded Vang and started using racial epithets.

Map of shootingsVang said only one of the people confronting him was armed. Vang said that as he turned to leave, he saw the man with the gun point it at him. Then, Vang said the man fired at him from about 100 feet, with the bullet hitting the ground about 30 feet behind. Vang said he knelt and fired twice. The man dropped.

Others in the group began to run, some through the woods and others to the ATVs on which they'd arrived. Vang said he fired more shots and others in the group dropped. He said he chased one man (believed to be Joey Crotteau) through the woods, firing as he ran. The man was yelling ''Help me! Help me!'' as he ran. Vang said that when he got to within about 15 feet of him, Vang fired again, and the man fell. Vang said he walked up to the man, heard him groan and then walked away.

The account provided by Vang stands in sharp contrast to one provided by Lauren Hesebeck, one of the wounded hunters. According to what Hesebeck told authorities, Vang started to walk away from the group, got about 40 yards away, turned and began firing. Vang shot at Terry Willers, one of those killed, several times. Hessebeck claims Willers returned fire before he was hit, but said Vang fired first.

Hesebeck has since been released from the hospital after being treated for his wounds.

Earlier today, the attorney-manager of the Spooner, Wis., branch of the Wisconsin Public Defender's Office said that authorities in Sawyer County are preventing anyone from his office from visiting Vang.

''We've been denied access by the sheriff's department,'' said James McLaughlin, adding that he is ''working with the public defender's main office in Madison to gain access to Vang.

McLaughlin said he has been told that Vang has not requested an attorney, so authorities say they don't have to admit anyone from McLaughlin's office. McLaughlin said he has met with members of Vang's family, who have told him they want him to meet with Vang.

''Professionally, I am concerned,'' he said. ''We are in the process of trying to resolve this.''

The sheriff could not be reached for comment.

Also, the medical conditions of the two survivors of the shooting rampage in Wisconsin have improved.

Lauren Hesebeck was released from Lakeview Medical Center in Rice Lake. St. Joseph's Hospital in Marshfield upgraded the condition of Terry Willers from serious to fair today.

Willers and Hesebeck survived the deer camp shooting that left six others in their hunting party dead.

Willers was the first person shot Sunday when a hunter allegedly opened fire on private land.

As he lay wounded on the ground, Willers managed to radio to others that they were under fire.

This article contains material from the Associated Press.
 
A Liberal's Advice on How to Squelch the Gun Control Liberals

As a Liberal, let me give the non-Liberals on this board some honest advice on how to characterize the Wisconsin hunting homocide issue to your anti-2nd friends in a way they will understand and accept. Remember, we wanna win them over to our side, not alienate them by attacking and enraging them...they'll just dig-in deeper:

ANTI-2ND FRIEND: See? We need to outlaw those stupid SKS assault rifles, and ban hunting while we're at it! Guys with weapons of war in the wilderness are bound to shoot each other!

YOU: I understand your shock at the shootings in Wisconsin, but gun ownership and hunting aren't the problem. Countless thousands of folks own hunting rifles like the SKS ,which is not an assault rifle, shoot them and hunt with them without incident. On the other hand, a lot more people are victims each year of vehicular homicide than of hunting-related homicide. The answer to the vehicular homicides is not to ban cars and ban roads...it is to better educate those who use them and work to help solve the societal ills that lead to homicidal behavior. The same applies to guns, or anything else that is used to kill, for that matter.

THE END

You've gotta remember that we Libs, though we can be reactionary, are usually detail-oriented and respond well to reason. Reason can usually return a passionate Liberal from an emotionally-charged issue back into sobriety.

That is my gift to you. You can return the favor by refraining from Lib-bashing this posting even after I gave you this gift of strategy in our common fight for the 2nd. :D (Yea, like that'll ever happen on THR) :D
 
He's a wife beater too. The police were called, he was arrested, but never charged. He confessed to the responding officers. They did not need any cooperation from the wife to prosecute him.

Shame on you Amy Klobuchar (anti-gun DFLer & Hennepin County Attorney). There are plenty of laws. The problem is lazy enforcement.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5100426.html
 
The FBI and other LEOs will probably be able to sort out whether Vang was shot at first. I would bet my next paycheck that they didn't fire at him first.
 
IF the guy's story is true and he was fired upon first, the first shooting MIGHT be self-defense, but I don't see any possible justification for running after and killing unarmed individuals trying to escape.
 
"How do you claim you didn't know you where on private property when you climb in a tree stand?Are there public tree stands?"

In Minnesota, you can build a permanent tree stand on public property, but you cannot lay claim to it. So...if a guy gets up at 3am and beats you to your stand on public land, you cannot kick him out.

Of course there are no laws regarding where you can relieve yourself, loudly sing 'The Star Spangled Banner' or light up a big stinky cigar, so taking another guy's deer stand isn't all that smart. :)

I have seen fixed stands on public land in Wisconsin, but I am unclear of the WI law since I would only climb into a stand not my own if I was completely sure that no one else was around. And I would get out apologizing profusely if someone wanted to use a stand that they built, regardless of the law.

No excuse whatsoever, but the fact that it's a fixed stand does not necessarily mean that it is private land. I do recall the Sheriff telling the press yesterday that the property was well-marked.
 
I agree, I think it is going to be fairly easy to figure out who started the shooting and whether his story is legit or not. If they found the one gun present still unfired and loaded or even unloaded, his story is going to sink fast. If he did take his scope off of the SKS, he is going to have a hard time explaining that too. Regardless, if he did indeed track down the fleeing unarmed people, he is still going to do time. His story sounds much like the many stories you hear when people are guilty, it just doesn't make sense.
 
hm
You can return the favor by refraining from Lib-bashing this posting even after I gave you this gift of strategy in our common fight for the 2nd.
Click to expand...

No bashing from me and I welcome your input but as an engineer my observation is most liberal antiunners (some in my family too) seem to be moved more by emotion than logic. You may be the direct opposite of this and that’s wonderful but that has not been my experience. For example....

My cousin. "Your guns look so evil".

My AR 15 and M14
But she thinks my marlin 336 and SAA is OK because their cowboy guns. Go Figure :confused:
 
Have you read this thread in "Strategies and Tactics"?

"Gamer at the Mini-Mart"
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=111006

Please remember that there are as many versions of events as there are observers.

There are clearly two sides here, and either -- or some combination of the two -- may be true.

None of us here was there.

Either side's story is plausible from what we know so far.

I don't doubt that forensic examination will help authorities find the truth. Let's give `em a chance to do that.
 
reply to molonlabe

molon... I was just talking to a friend of mine (fellow THR'er) about that very point. I fear you're right about the "Scary Loud Deathsticks" syndrome commonly found among many anti-2nd folks. That's why it's so incredibly important for all of us to act as diplomats for gun rights. We can only win folks over one person at a time, and we're each responsible for taking on this challenge.

Education and demystifying arms for those who didn't grow up around them and/or have hysterically biased feelings about them is, I'm convinced, the key. I also don't believe that the "Guns Are Scary" crowd constitutes the majority of the anti-2nd crowd (though I admit I don't have data on this point...just been my experience).

One tends to attract more flies with honey than vinegar (Not that engaging in a little harmless bashing isn't fun every now and then). :evil:
 
I am with Ed on this one. I don't care what the weapon is, what the races are, or what the activity happened to be. An armed nut shot down a bunch of unarmed people. This type of thing shouldn't build a case for gun control, it shouldn't build a case against hunting, it should build a case for the death penalty. The whole episode makes me want to :barf:
 
Hmmm, self defense....he was shot at first, had time to remove his scope and return fire. Yea, right.
The first time I was ever shot at, I was so nervous I could hardly insert a new clip. Let alone remove a scope.
 
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