Baer vs Brown vs Wilson

[1911WB]

I've owned a number of 1911's by several manufacturers, but only one "custom", a Baer full-size ss. It is a joy to shoot with grps. under 1 1/2" not uncommon at 25 yrds. with a number of different loads & bullet types. I can't really compare Brown or Wilson to it other than what I read in the forums. Does anyone have personal knowledge to compare the three? Also, what about customer service? I find Baer & Wilson to be good, but have heard Brown is not so good. I would be particularly interested in Tuner's opinion. I'm thinking about buying another custom, maybe a Cmdr. length, and don't want to make a mistake with such a costly item.

 

[Tamara]

From the ones I've seen and examined, Browns are noticeably better than the other two (materials, fit, and finish) while an average Baer seems to be slightly nicer than an equivalent Wilson, IMHO (mostly because Wilsons, in a strange coincidence, use a lot of Wilson parts, which I despise. )

I wouldn't kick any of the three out of my gun safe, though. After my current project 1911 is done, and I finally build that dang AR I've been meaning to get around to, then I'll be rolling my pennies for a Baer TRS or Wilson CQB. Which I buy depends on which one I stumble across first.

 

[1911Tuner]

Brown Gets the Nod

Howdy,

Though I've only seen a few of the examples that you've named...We don't get many "Production Semi-Customs" or full customs in this bend of th'
crick...I gotta go along with Tamara's call on the Browns.

The Baers are tight with a capital "T"...and often need several hundred rounds to loosen up enough to run like they should. Not ALL of'em...
but enough that you're likely to get one that needs a break-in period.
Easy fix, by the way, with a judicious application of "The Slurry"
and some elbow grease.

Bill Wilson hasn't built a gun in years...at least not one that's sold under his
banner. The ol' watchmaker has delegated the operation to others in his
employ, and kicked back. Can't say as I blame him, though. Early retirement/semi-retirement has its advantages.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[1911WB]

Thanks for replies

Thanks, folks, for the informative replies. Just curious, Tamara, what problems have u seem with specific Wilson parts? I'm particularly interested in their extractors, magazines, & replacement mag spring/follower kits.

 

[Sean Smith]

Main Entry: 2custom
Function: adjective
1 : made or performed according to personal order
2 : specializing in custom work or operation <a custom tailor>

Baers, Browns and Wilsons aren't really custom guns. You have almost no choice in what you get, since they are made in advance in fixed model lines, not made to order. All 3 have gotten out of the custom work business for the most part, Brown only recently with the elimination of the "Class A Limited" made to order guns. Of the 3, Browns are built by the Brown family, the rest are made by hired gunsmiths whose names ain't on the guns.

What they make are nice, expensive 1911-pattern guns.

But for some reason the marketing hype value of calling their guns "custom," when they have fewer "custom" options than a Ford Focus off the dealer lot, is irresistable. It's not like Ferrari stops being fast because it isn't a "custom car," or a Rolex doesn't keep time* because it isn't a "custom watch," but tell somebody their off-the-shelf gun ain't "custom" and you'd think you said something less than flattering about their mother.

But enough of that tangent.

From what I've seen of the 3, I'd say that the Ed Brown is the all-around nicest at the same price point. And personally, I like the fact that Ed Brown uses real Novak and Bo-Mar sights, instead of cheaper and/or uglier knock-offs of them. Just my opinion; I don't think any of the 3 brands has that many dogs.

*Insert joke about obsolete Swiss watch technology here.

 

[1911Tuner]

Technology

*Insert joke about obsolete Swiss watch technology here.

Heyyyy...I resemble that remark!

 

[Condition One]

I don't have a Brown, never even held one in my hand. They do look nice in the magazines. I do have a Wilson CQB 5" and a Les Baer PII with 6" long slide. Each gun was purchased with a different task in mind. The Wilson, a little IDPA in the future and self defense. The Baer was strictly a Bullseye gun from the get go.

The Wilson is a first rate piece. It's really slick. The slide to frame fit is as good or better than some custom guns I have tried. It did not require any break in, being 100% reliable from the box. I have had no parts failure in better than 5,000 rounds. It's as accurate as the 6" Baer in my hands. I only shoot as good as my 57 year old eyes can see so take this for what it's worth. Trigger has not been tuched by anybody and is a crisp 2.14 pounds on my electronic trigger gauge. I would buy another Wilson Combat gun in a heart beat.

The Bear is a thing of beauty. 6" slide and dark blue. It is tight still, after 3,500 rounds. It is one of the earily models with real Bowmar sights. Not the Baermars that they currently use. I don't recall any failures to feed or extract that was not due to one of my reloads that was out of spec. It's not as forgiving as the Wilson but nun the less a relilable and accurate piece. When the pistol was new it had a crisp 5 lb trigger. A really good gunsmith got it down to 3.5 lbs. Might be I should have sent it back to Les but the job was done while I had lunch. I can't complain. No part failures of any kind.

I guess I can't give an answer as to which is the better gun. Both are keepers. I think both are a quality product with slightly different methods to reach the same end. I think the Baer with it's longer barrel might out shoot the Wilson in someone elses hands. But this is apples to oranges. Purchas the one YOU LIKE and never look back. From what I have herd, both Mfg's will take care of the customer.


Shoot Safe.......CO

 

[Dave Sample]

Ed Brown, hands down. They are a bargain and are well built 1911's. I wouldn't have the other two as a gift.

 

[Kruzr]

I've got two Baers and a Brown. I've shot and handled a number of Wilsons. They are all very nice pistols but I also would vote Brown out of these three. Its a close call to me between the Wilsons and Baers but I'd opt for the Baer but thats my personal preference. There is a big difference in philosophy in building guns between Baer and the other two. Les makes tight, tight guns. My Brown and the Wilson's I've handled are not as tight but shoot about the same..........all shoot very well.

The overall finish on the Brown is better than the other two. I've only had to deal with customer service on one of the Baers and it was so-so. The only way to insure you get good service on a Baer is to talk to Les directly since he doesn't have a consistent customer service policy with regard to turnaround time or shipping costs (both ways).

The words Custom Guns have seemingly evolved from the real definition Sean pointed out to a gun that has a lot of hand fitting work done on it as opposed to the mass production guns.

 

[1911Tuner]

Gifts

Quote:

I wouldn't have the other two as a gift.
_______________________________


I would! Send me ALL those Wilsons and Baers!

 

[BluesBear]

Back when I lived in Kentucky there were a lot of people who were members of the Order of Kentucky Colonels. Now this is an honorary title bestowed upon citizens by the Kentucky Governor. It seems like a lot of these people like referring to themselves as Colonel This or Colonel That.

Anyway this Brown, Wilson, Baer competition reminds me of something I read once. Now I don't know if this blowhard was a real Colonel or an honoraty Colonel or just a Kernal of Corn but as I recall it went something like this;

Well pardner, let me just say that all them other custom guns is junk and I wouldn't have 'em for a Christmas present. I don't work on junk and I don't shoot junk. I don't even want to touch junk because it's junk. When I build a gun I build it right and it don't even need to be test fired because like I said, I build'em right and never had one come back in over 20 years.

Back when I built the Midnight Special, it was the finest in the world and me and my young nephew was bustin' chicken eggs clean across the valley over yonder. Why, it musta been three, four hunnert yards and we just dang near couldn't miss. I think I musta hit about 8 or 10 of them eggs in a row the first time I shot the gun...Didn't even sight it in. Like I said, when I build one I build it right and that includes the sights and I never made a dime on any gun I ever built cause that's just what it's like to be me.

I know things about the 1911 that nobody has ever been able to figure out in dang near a hunnert years and I'll take my secrets to the grave with me cause I'm the Colonel and everybody else is nobody just pertendin' ta be somebody and that includes all them fancy-pants Pistolsmith Guild sissies too.

But I tell ya what pardner. You send me that gun, and if I like ya, and I get time, I'll tune it up and won't charge ya more than a couple hunnert dollars and I guaran-dang-tee that it'll never miss a lick and it'll go a hunnert thousand rounds and probably won't even need cleanin', cause, like I said, I build'em right and they run 'cause they ain't got a choice in the matter. I can smell a 1911 and tell ya what's wrong with in five seconds, cause that's just what it's like ta be me.

Now, if I don't like ya, I'll send it back in 6 or 8 months with the name of the next best man for the job, but it won't be a Colonel tuned pistol 'cause they can't do it as good as I do it, 'cause I am the Colonel and they are nobody even though they bribed their way into the Pistolsmith's Guild and just don't know how to build a pistol the Colonel's way.


Sounded like a case of firing pin envy to me.

 

[Tamara]

I wouldn't have the other two as a gift.

Sometimes you can hear all you need to know about a man in nine short words.

 

[Rich357]

Les Baers are tight when the come from the factory but the ones I've had experience with perform very well from day one. No FTFs. No FTEs. Even with fixed sights, the point of impact was exactly right, IMHO, for a combat pistol. I was told to shoot 500 round through my Les Baer (with some cleaning and oiling) before I field strip the pistol. This was an excellent suggestion.

I'm very happy with Les Baer pistols. I've just order my second Les Baer.

I am looking forward to trying an Ed Brown when they are approved for sale in CA.

Rich

 

[1911Tuner]

Envy?

BluesBear said:

"Sounded like a case of firing pin envy to me."

ROFLMAO... Ya don't mean..."Pinus Envy"!!! ROFL Surely not!

BluesBear! Behave yo' bad self!

Spewin' coffee all over my monitor...

Tuner

 

[HankB]

I have a Baer and am really happy with it - it's both tighter and more accurate than my Colt National Match, yet displays none of the "finicky" nature of that pistol when it comes to ammo. Flawless reliability, and more accuracy than I can fully utilize.

I've tried Wilsons, and they're generally quite good, too . . . but they seem to have a lot of sharp edges. (I've heard current production has addressed this.) No problem when shooting a box or two of ammo, but a lot of guys with Wilsons are sporting band-aids on their hands by the second day of a shooting class.

Ed Brown pistols are very nice. But when I've compared them side-by-side to a Baer or Wilson, well, I really can't see what the extra $500 is for.

 

[riverdog]

Being in CA, Ed Brown's 1911's are not an option, so when I stumbled across a used Wilson 1996A2, I bought it. When I found a new Baer TRs I bought that also. I ordered a Wilson CQB and it took so long I cancelled the order. About a year later the same shop had three CQB's so I bought one off the shelf. I really don't know which one do I like best. The TRS is noticably tighter than either of the Wilsons, but none of these pistols have reliability issues and all are more accurate than me. All have great triggers.

 

[BigG]

Swiss watch

Tuner, I think of you more along the lines of Timex: you know, "Takes a lickin and keeps on toonin!"

 

[George Hill]

There are some other good custom 1911 guns out there. You should see what Terry Tussy can do.
Makes a Wilson look like a stock Springfield.

 

[Berg01]

RRA National Match Hardball

I can appreciate all the ones you mention, but I've seen this one up close, and I've had a chance to shoot one, and it is worth every bit of the $1,380.00 it costs, and it is worth the long delivery time.

 

[BigG]

$1,380??? I thought we were talking custom >>$3,000+++ pistoles.

 

[Berg01]

$1,380??? I thought we were talking custom >>$3,000+++ pistoles.

I think the term is "limited production", not necessarily "custom"; If I had the $3K to go custom, I'd call George Smith at Evolution Gunworks, and order a firearm that would be quantum-leap better than any of the other guns we are talking about. I live near EGW's "old" facility, I've met these guys, and they are currently working on the second gun that I've sent to them at their "new" facility.

 

[Kestrel]

The Ed Brown guns are finished nicer. The Wilsons are very good guns, just not finished quite as nicely as the Browns. Both are fabulous guns, though.

I've read a lot of favorable opinions on the Baers, but I don't have any experience with them. I don't like the asthetics, nor the sights they use, however.

Both Brown and Wilson are excellent ~$2,000 guns.

I'm curious as to what Tamara doesn't like about Wilson parts?

Steve

 

[cerberus]

From what I have read here

It seems I am just as well off with my Kimbers then spending the extra thousands of dollars on the Brown Baers or Wilsons. This from what everyone has posted.

 

[Kruzr]

It seems I am just as well off with my Kimbers then spending the extra thousands of dollars on the Brown Baers or Wilsons. This from what everyone has posted.

I'm a big Kimber fan, I believe they make the best mass produced 1911 you can buy but the analogy here would be like comparing a Chevy Impala to a Mercedes 500 class. Both will get you where you want to go and if thats what you are interested in, get the Chevy. But, when you shoot a Baer, a Brown or a Wilson, you see and feel the difference and understand the higher cost.

 

[Sean Smith]

It seems I am just as well off with my Kimbers then spending the extra thousands of dollars on the Brown Baers or Wilsons. This from what everyone has posted.

That's a bizarre conclusion to draw from what was posted here.