Rock River Arms 1911s

[fnforme]

I'm in the market for my first 1911 and last week a gentleman at the range was kind enough to let me shot several mags through his Les Baer Custom Carry and Ed Brown Kobra. Both are nearly perfect handguns as far as I'm concerned. It made me rethink which 1911 I plan on buying and now I want something top quality. The lowest gun I am considering is the Dan Wesson bobtail Commander, but I may go for a used Baer, Brown, etc....

But my question is why I don't hear much about the Rock Rivers compared to Baers, Browns, and Wilsons??? Are they substandard compared to these other semi-custom guns? The Rock Rivers seem a few hundred $ cheaper than the competition, my only gripe is that they don't come in stainless steel. I own a RRA M4 and I love it, so far my experience with RRA has been good. What do y'all think of their 1911 line?

 

[shep854]

When I was shopping for a "mil-spec" 1911A1, I lookd at a couple of Rock River pistols. They looked good, though used, and had a very smooth slide action. Also, as far as I could tell, all the safety devices worked.

Like you, I hadn't heard much about them, so I passed. After buying my A/O, I read a positive report on them. Had I read the report sooner, I would have bought one (they were also around $100 cheaper).

 

[Sean Smith]

When I was shopping for a "mil-spec" 1911A1, I lookd at a couple of Rock River pistols. They looked good, though used, and had a very smooth slide action. Also, as far as I could tell, all the safety devices worked.

Like you, I hadn't heard much about them, so I passed. After buying my A/O, I read a positive report on them. Had I read the report sooner, I would have bought one (they were also around $100 cheaper).

Sounds like you are confusing Rock River Arms with Rock Island Armory. RRA are made-to-order expensive custom guns built in the USA. RIA are cheap-o and kind of junky imports. RRA is in the same ballpark as Wilson or Baer or Brown. RIA are in the same ballpark as Charles Daly or Auto-Ordnance.

But my question is why I don't hear much about the Rock Rivers compared to Baers, Browns, and Wilsons??? Are they substandard compared to these other semi-custom guns? The Rock Rivers seem a few hundred $ cheaper than the competition, my only gripe is that they don't come in stainless steel.

I've heard nothing but raves about RRA guns. Once you place your order you will have to wait about 6 months for one, but they offer way more options than Wilson, Brown or Baer. You don't hear about them as much because they are a much lower-volume outfit than Wilson or Baer... they just don't have as many guns out there.

If you want a rust-resistant silver finish on your RRA, order Hard Chrome.

Read more about them here:

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51

 

[cratz2]

I've shot several 1911s from many of the top 'Semi Custom' makers including RRA, Wilson, Baer, Brown etc... In my opinion, the Browns are probably the best by a hair but I'd take an RRA over a Wilson or Baer myself. Purely personal opinion, but I've shot and handled a fair number of all I've listed except the Browns which I've only shot two.

STIs are worthy of consideration if you don't rank cosmetics very high... again, purely personal opinion. Good guns, good value, not so pretty.

I'd buy a Rock River without hesitation. I owned one of their ARs, handled maybe 10 different 1911s and shot one Hardball Match. Oustanding to the very last detail. My name was on their list and I sent in the $200 'get your name on the list' fee, but cancelled when folks on the 1911 forum were telling of their 14-16 month wait periods. This was all several years ago and I guess they've expanded a bit.

My experience with Dan Wesson 1911s is generally positive but it has been almost all with 45s and one 38 Super. Again, my experience has been positive but I know of at least one person who's opinion I hold in high esteem that has had a couple negative experiences. And I personally would not consider them on par with the $900-ish STI Trojan. Do a quick search on the autoloader forum for 'Dan Wesson' and see what comes up.

 

[fnforme]

Cratz2, I was considering the Trojan but I didn't think it compared well to those other models. This is just absed on what I've read since I have never shot any STI. When shooting a STI Trojan can you tell that it's several hundred dollars cheaper than a Brown, Baer, Wilson, etc??? I'm also considering the SIG GSR if it comes out without that hideous rail.

Thanks guys!

 

[Siggyboy]

My buddy just bought a RRA 1911, their Elite Commando model, 5 inch blued. I handled it and shot it a week ago. It looked good, similar to a Baer and I believe they use Baer slides and frames and at least one of the builders used to work for Les Baer back in the day. It wasn't as tight as a Baer, but then just about nothing is. It also wasn't as smooth as a Wilson or Brown but my buddy had just gotten the gun that night and reports that after cleaning it up it smoothed out. The bushing was way too tight. The hammer has a nice contour. The sear and hammer were reportedly stoned and polished very well. The trigger was good and the parts were well fit: beavertail, extended thumb safety (looked like Brown), also there are no marks on the slide, just smooth blued steel and the very tight Baer front and rear cocking serrations. I didn't get to examine the gun that well because it was during an IDPA match, but it looked good.

Rock River 1911's are fairly rare around here. They don't make too many of them, probably less than Ed Brown does. The cool thing about the RRA is that they are basically a custom gun since you can specify what you want on it: barrel length, FCS, brand safeties, finish etc.

Now as for the Trojan, I've shot one of those too. I really don't like the huge ugly rollmarks on the STI guns, but apart from that the gun is real sweet. In shooting it I don't think it inferior to the other top brands at all. The Trojan is really well put together, smooth and a good shooter. I'd take it over a GSR.

 

[MrAcheson]

also there are no marks on the slide, just smooth blued steel

RRA doesn't make them like this anymore. The BATFE evidentally gave them trouble because the slides had no markings. Now they have a simple "1911a1 .45 caliber" rollmark on the slide. Its a damn shame though, the smooth slide look was amazing. I was considering buying one just for that. I bet they will become serious collectors pieces in twenty years.

 

[cratz2]

That is weird about the slide markings... Dan Wesson needed some help financially and Lew Horton bought the entire years production (or so I'm told) to help keep them afloat. Part of the deal was building a couple models they don't currently 'build'. I've seen a couple 38 Supers with front strap checkering, adjustable sights etc... Very nicely fitted and with absolutely no markings on the left side of the gun.

Anyway, comparing the STI guns, at least the cheaper Trojan, the three or so that I've handled have been very close to the Brown/Wilson/Baer as far as my general impression but the rollmark is butt-ugly... I have no idea what made them go with such a hideous monstrosity! A few guys have said they felt compelled to send them back but then, at $900, most folks expect perfection... Lots of Baers and Wilsons go back as well. In my experience, the Browns are the prettiest of the bunch with the Rock Rivers right behind. The Baers seem to be just about the tighest and I would expect the most trouble from them, at least right out of the box. Keep in mind, a tightly-fitted semi custom 1911 is not about perfect reliability from the first shot. Just don't expect it. Expect problems for the first several hundred rounds and on a Baer, I'd expect one trip back to the factory. The first Baer I ever looked at, the barrel bushing was so tight that a nylon wrench seemed like it would tear apart before the bushing turned.

Again, for my money, I like the Springfield Pro at around $2,000. For between $1,300-$1,600, I'd go with a Rock River if I could stand the wait or pop a few extra bucks and get a Brown. I'd personally skip the Baers and Wilsons unless I came across the right deal on a used one. For $900 to $1,000 I'd look at the Trojan and just accept the awful, terrible rollmark. When the gun is held in your hands with your arms extended looking down the slide at a target, the rollmark means very little. If this is going to be a nice carry gun, I wouldn't worry about it. If this is meant to be a gun that stays in the safe and gets admired and oiled once in a while, I'd take something else.

 

[Sean Smith]

If I got a Trojan, I'd pay to have a gunsmith grind the markings off the slide, and the front cocking serrations while I was at it.

 

[C. H. Luke]

Own a Baer PII & a RR LTD. As mcuh as I love the Baer my vote has to go for the RR. They build 1911's to order and are "custom" guns in the sense that you may spec. any or all of the parts. You can get almost exactly what you want.
If my Baer is representative the internal parts were not as finely fit as the RR's. Deburred and polished all the guts except the hammer & sear mating surfaces winding up with much more pleasant & smoother operation. The insides of the RR obviously showed magnificent attention to detail one would expect from a "one-off" gun by a top "name" 'Smith. Much exc. hand-fitting is evident and all the right things are done {sear spring deburred & polished, etc.}
Baer stands out for superb machining and extreme close tolerance mating for Superb accuracy while RR displays elegant external hand-work and superb cosmetics plus a true hand built gun inside. Could never give up the Baer but between the two it's an easy choice for the RR. Not to mention they are significantly less $ than Brown, Wilson or Baer.
They back their work up too. My RR was used, 3rd hand, and at over 5K had a slightly loose front sight. They replaced it for free.

 

[MoNsTeR]

My understanding was that Rock Rivers are uncommon because it takes 12-18 months to get one...

Their prices are good, but I could get a ground-up custom built in 2 months for only a little more.

 

[MrAcheson]

It is my understanding that RR has improved on the wait time problem. The real issue I have heard is that while the blue guns are gorgeous, the finish tends to wear very quickly with use.

 

[Sean Smith]

My understanding was that Rock Rivers are uncommon because it takes 12-18 months to get one...

More like 6 months now.

The real issue I have heard is that while the blue guns are gorgeous, the finish tends to wear very quickly with use.

Only insofar as every blued gun in the known universe won't resist wear very much. It isn't a RRA thing, but a bluing thing.

 

[Sean Smith]

My understanding was that Rock Rivers are uncommon because it takes 12-18 months to get one...

More like 6 months now.

The real issue I have heard is that while the blue guns are gorgeous, the finish tends to wear very quickly with use.

Only insofar as every blued gun in the known universe won't resist wear very much.

 

[shep854]

Sean, . All those "Rocks" threw me. Time will tell if I'm the blind squirrel that found the acorn, or if AO has gotten its act together under Kahr. Finding out should be fun, though.

 

[Sean Smith]

All those "Rocks" threw me.

You wouldn't be the first. I hear they are changing their name to "NOT A FRICKIN' CHEAP 1911 CLONE IMPORT, DAMMIT!!! "