Bare lead bullets for 9mm

[Ronniefromalabama]

Inventorying my stock of bullets today, I find that I have several hundred lead non-jacketed bullets in 9mm.

I've been told that semi-autos don't like lead bullets, especially Glocks.

Do you load 9 in lead? What guns are they good for? Conversely, what guns are they not good for. I have Glocks, a Smith & Wesson 915, and a Belgian WWII Radom.

What say you?

 

[rcmodel]

If the gun has visable rifling, lead will work fine.

If the gun doesn't have visable rifling (like your Glock) then maybe not.

I shoot lead in my .40 Glock.
But the bullets need to be very hard to engage the polygon rifling.

rc

 

[MutinousDoug]

Lead, 124gr, TC bullets seem to work fine in the S&W model 39 we have.

 

[X-Ring]

Lead, 124gr, TC bullets seem to work fine in the S&W model 39 we have.

They work good in my Baretta 92FS also.

 

[eldon519]

There is nothing wrong with shooting lead in a semi-auto. The reason for not shooting lead in Glocks is that they have polygonal rifling which some say will cause a problem. Glock also warns against it. That said, plenty of people, myself included, shoot cast lead bullets out of their Glocks without incident.

 

[GLOOB]

I shoot lead in my .40 Glock.
But the bullets need to be very hard to engage the polygon rifling.

All due respect, I disagree.

I've been told that semi-autos don't like lead bullets, especially Glocks

Also disagree.

Please, no disrespect is meant here.

The truth is that Glocks like lead bullets just fine, as long as they fill the bore.
Semi-autos like lead bullets just fine.

What doesn't always like lead bullets, particularly soft lead bullets, are sized 9mm and 40 cases.

Unless my Glocks are special, I can say that Glocks in 9mm and 40SW will shoot straight WW alloy (much softer than MBC) bullets just fine. Air cooled. No hardening nonsense. But only if the cases are prepped correctly. And there's no off-the-shelf solution for 40SW. So hard lead might be the way to go. (My custom made 40 expander = instant accuracy and no fouling in my Glock 40!)

For 9mm, if you get an NOE 356/360 expander, you can shoot any cast bullet you want. In your Glock. They will shoot clean with either no or very little fouling. I have shot about two thousand cast bullets through a 9mm Glock without cleaning it... because it didn't need it. No chore boys. No shooting jacketed bullets to clean out the fouling. Just 2 thousand cast bullets and a clean bore.

Load some bullets and pull them. Measure the base with calipers. If you measure < 356, you will have trouble in your Glock bore. Fouling. Lots and lots of it. And tumbling bullets that can't hit a 10 foot circle at 50 yards.

I have measured pulled bullets squished by 3 mils at the base. These bullets fouled the Glock bore (9mm and 40) horribly. Couldn't keep them on target. But they weren't half bad out of a button rifled barrel. Changing nothing else but the expanders made the same bullets shoot as accurately and cleanly as jacketed out of anything.

This can indirectly be called a lead hardness problem, but it's misleading. Yes, there will be a cause and effect due to lead hardness. But that doesn't make it the root cause of the problem. If you fix your cases, you fix the problem. It's very simple. It's so strange that this is not common knowledge, yet. You have to hunt for the info and experiment for yourself to this day. When the answer is so simple. For some reason, black magic takes center stage among "gun folk." Seems like we would rather paint our bullets or play with alloys than to fix the problem once and for good. And shoot cheap bullets accurately and cleanly forever after.

 

[Schwing]

The truth is that Glocks like lead bullets just fine, as long as they fill the bore.
Semi-autos like lead bullets just fine.

+1 on this. Having bullets that are .001 to .002 larger than the bore diameter is the #1 most important thing you can do for accuracy with any lead bullet.

I would add though that lead bullets can be a bit more of a challenge to load in higher pressure rounds like 9mm or .40 than say the lower pressure rounds like .45 or .38. It can be and is done all the time though.

I know a lot of people read those Glock manuals that say specifically NOT to use lead bullets... I have manuals from several guns that say not to use reloads in them so I think it is lawyer speak more than anything. I know a lot of shooters who have great results with lead in polygonal barrels.

 

[rcmodel]

Here is my take on it.

I have a very early Glock 23.
And at the time, they were made in such a way they could fire out of battery by as much as 3/32".

Gradual leading and fouling in the front shoulder of the chamber could hold them open further & further, until the poorly supported case was no longer supported at all.

And the infamous Glock .40 KaBooms resulted.

All I ever used in mine was hard Linotype cast bullets to cut down on that.

And I had sense enough to run a bore brush through the chamber and scrape out the crud every few hundred rounds.

(Yes, Glocks DO need cleaning more often then once a decade!!)

I can't really comment on the new Glocks, because I don't own one, and never will.
(I actually hate them, and will never buy another one.)

rc

 

[Duvel]

Said in the same way: A lead needs to be sized to the bore, and must obturate, otherwise you'll get gas cutting (leading).

Plunk test, as some chamber won't like even 2 thou oversized.

 

[GLOOB]

But additionally it doesn't matter what size your bore or the bullet if you don't measure them AFTER the case is done mangling them. 9mm and 40SW cases (and/or sizing dies) are potentially very bad offenders. The whole sizing and measuring bores is overblown. Particularly for mandrel forged barrels like Glocks. We know what size your bore is with a pretty high degree of accuracy. It is between 355 and 356. Because it's a Glock. You might have a different size, but if you play the odds, you'll be ok 95% of the time. So just make sure your 356 or larger bullet is full diameter by the time it leaves the case. Glock bores are not tolerant of undersized bullets. BTW, I think it might be the combination of a long throat/leade and a very gradual leading edge of the rifling that makes them so intolerant. The bullet has not much reason to obturate.

Another thing I live by: if a cast bullet fits in the chamber, it might be too small. But it's definitely not too big. No such thing until it causes a chambering issue.

 

[TommyD45]

So just make sure your 356 or larger bullet is full diameter by the time it leaves the case. Glock bores are not tolerant of undersized bullets. BTW, I think it might be the combination of a long throat/leade and a very gradual leading edge of the rifling that makes them so intolerant. The bullet has not much reason to obturate.

Another thing I live by: if a cast bullet fits in the chamber, it might be too small. But it's definitely not too big. No such thing until it causes a chambering issue.

If you wish to load "oversize" bullets to fit your bore, the Lee Factory Crimp Die can cause a problem. To ensure reliable feeding, it will squeeze the case down to what Lee thinks it should be. If your bullet plus case wall are too big, it will swage down the bullet and you now have an undersize bullet for your bore.

Tom

 

[DoubleSawbuck]

I've shot a lot of lead through my xd9 without any issues. 115g 124g 147g

 

[Lafitte]

I shoot lead in 1911's, practically nothing else except lead. Buy 'em by the thousands. Have shot a few lead from a Glock 36, no problems.
Your mileage may vary,
Lafitte

 

[Elkins45]

You do need to approach lead bullets in polygonal rifling with caution. Fit, hardness and lube need to be matched to keep them from leading very badly due to gas cutting around the edges of the rifling.

If you shoot lead in Glocks it is prudent to visually verify the slide is all the way forward and the barrel is flush with the top of the slide for every shot. An out of battery discharge is something you won't soon forget.

 

[mdi]

I've been told that semi-autos don't like lead bullets, especially Glocks.

Not 100% sure about Glocks (I have read that there's a lot of fellers that shoot lead in their poly rifled barrels), but my 6 semi-auto pistols shoot cast lead bullets 99% of the time, accurately and trouble free. One of the much tossed about myths concerning cast lead bullets; Semi-autos are problematic with nekkid lead bullets...

If you want to know/read about nearly everything concerning casting or buying lead bullets and shooting them look here; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php

 

[chris in va]

Or, you can bypass 90% of what is suggested above and powdercoat those bare lead bullets. No smoke, no leading, slicker feeding, safely shoots in polygonal barrels.

 

[toivo]

The only pistol I've ever shot plain lead 9mm in was a Walther P1. It was on an older range that didn't allow any jacketed centerfire due to the condition of the backstop.

They cycled OK. I can't speak for the accuracy, since that wasn't the point of the exercise.

 

[Walkalong]

Bullet fit has always been king with lead. Then adjust other things as/if needed. I didn't know that was a secret.

The bullet sellers and some gun writers are largely to blame for people thinking they needed harder alloy than they often times do.

I have often debated the "try a softer alloy" and the "you don't need that hard an alloy" here.

I didn't always "win".

 

[springer99]

Struggled with cast lead bullets in my M9 for awhile, until I tried the .357sized, 125gr. Truncated cone style meant for .357Mag. Going to .357 proved to be magic for both my M9, 9mm and 38Super. Short of shooting XTP's, this bullet has proved to be the most accurate one I have found. Hardness is around 12BHN.

Fit is everything!!

 

[dragon813gt]

I have often debated the "try a softer alloy" and the "you don't need that hard an alloy" here.



I didn't always "win".

Imagine that

Hard lubes are no ones friend either. They are another disservice forced upon the consumer by the commercial casters. Can't have the lube coming out of the lube grooves or being sticky after all. I admit I use harder lubes but that's a relative term. NRA 50/50, while it works, isn't suited to the climate here.

 

[Jim Watson]

Everybody is right.
It just depends on your combination of cast bullet, the way it is loaded and the fine dimensions of your Glock barrel.

If all I had was "several hundred" I would shoot them in my other guns and bypass the whole issue.

By the way, the Radom is a Polish gun.

 

[murf]

i shoot .358" diameter bullets (125 grain tc) out of my browning hi-power and glock 19. so far no abnormal leading problems. i clean out the barrel every 50-100 shots. also, all colt 38 magnum revolver groove diameters are .355". those guns are accurate. hatcher, in one of his books, lists a .359" diameter for 9mm lead bullets.

if you think the bullet is getting squished by your case, pull the bullet and measure the diameter.

murf

 

[RRS1623]

Cast Bullets in 9mm

Spent some time working with cast bullets for my 9mm semis.
What I ended up with was:

1. Barrels slugged at .356" (Shield), .355 (Walther)
2. Used a 38 mold, 120g, lead round nose, that drops at .358"
3. Resized to .357, used ALOX lube.
4. Loaded the above on top of 4g of bullseye.

Very accurate with no leading and no jams.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

I shoot lead about exclusively out of my glocks, M&Ps, and my berretta. I also shoot them out of my 9mm ar15. I'm not talking a few hundred. I'm talking thousands. I hear all the time about problems with lead in glocks but ive got a couple 9s a couple 40s and a 45 glock and all shoot lead just fine. I do cast my own so I can control a few important things. First id suggest you use an alloy at least 15bhn and a good soft lube. Size to 358 if they will fit and 357 if its necessary. Keep velocitys to below 1200 fps and you wont have a lick of trouble. At least I don't. To me that's the wonderful thing with 9s. I used to not be a fan but in this day and age where finding 22 ammo is so tough, I can load cast 9mm cheaper then most places sell 22 shells. 4 grains of powder and a primer is all it cost me. One thing I do also do to prevent leading is I load a jacketed first in a mag so that it shoots last. It will clean out any slight leading that occurs. One other thing to keep in mind is that leading to some is even a faint trace. to me leading is when it effects accuracy. If the gun is still shooting fine why worry about it. Most guns will take on just a hint of leading and never get any worse. I don't own a gun that a jacketed bullet at the end of the day doesn't clean it out.

 

[TimSr]

Lead, 124gr, TC bullets seem to work fine in the S&W model 39 we have.

My old SW39, and my SW439 digest them very well with a full load of Blue Dot.