cdb1
Member
There already is such an animal.
Barrel Break in
- Thread starter Covelo-NdN
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There already is such an animal.
Here's a kit to break in a barrel:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/513887/tubb-final-finish-bore-lapping-system-308-caliber-and-762mm
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/513887/tubb-final-finish-bore-lapping-system-308-caliber-and-762mm
someguy2800
Member
After owning two beautiful stainless Ruger Hawkeye 77 MkII's, it's stunning to me that they would take so much time to craft such a lovely gun with such crap barrels. If my Rugers shot like my Savages (that cost 1/2 as much) I never would have sold them.
Isn't that the truth. Its hard to believe that the same company is responsible for the precision rifle and the ruger american, both of which have a great accuracy reputation. I would love to have a mark 77 but all of the ones I've shot were turkeys. I know there are good ones out there, but generally people don't sell there good shooting rifles.
If a barrel can wear out why can't it wear in? Even a really good barrel such as a Krieger or Bartlein will have tooling marks in the throat running perpendicular to the bore. Once those marks are removed by shooting and cleaning there's no question that a well made barrel will barely foul after that. I've shot five or six consecutive 88 round matches without cleaning a Krieger barrel, and a patch soaked in a copper removing solvent pushed through the bore has come out clean. Those Kreiger barrels will put the first shot from a cold, clean bore in the same 1/2 moa or better group as the 80th shot. Some barrels will see accuracy fall off with fouling so the question is whether or not the accuracy falls off enough to adversely affect shot placement. When it comes to hunting, I don't want to have to head out with a fouled barrel just so I know where the first shot will go. I want to head out with a clean barrel, one that puts the 5th shot in the same 1/2 moa group as the first shot. It stands to reason that you can expedite the polishing of the throat by removing any trapped copper after every shot. It took less than 5 rounds to polish the throat of the two new Krieger barrels that I used in F-Class to the extent that no visible fouling occurred in the barrel after that initial shoot and clean regimen.
When you think how production barrels are made, few are honing the bore to a sub 20 microinch finish after gun drilling and reaming the barrel. Many pass a button through the bore with lots of tooling marks left after the reaming process. Those defects are merely ironed into the lands and grooves and become rifles that need a few or a lot of shots to settle down if the bore is "clean". Some decide to leave the copper in the barrel but copper and steel or copper and stainless steel make a strong galvanic couple so that fouled barrel can pit in a humid or corrosive environment.
When I lived in Hawaii and went out to the Koko Head range on a weekend to work up a load for a new rifle, I wanted to start meaningful load development as quickly as possible. Sure I could shoot 50 rounds, head home and clean the barrel but if I could get the barrel to settle down by shooting and cleaning after each of the first 3 to 10 rounds on the first day I saw that as a good thing.
Gale McMillan said many interesting and thoughtful things throughout his life, but his comments re barrel break-in are not among them.
When you think how production barrels are made, few are honing the bore to a sub 20 microinch finish after gun drilling and reaming the barrel. Many pass a button through the bore with lots of tooling marks left after the reaming process. Those defects are merely ironed into the lands and grooves and become rifles that need a few or a lot of shots to settle down if the bore is "clean". Some decide to leave the copper in the barrel but copper and steel or copper and stainless steel make a strong galvanic couple so that fouled barrel can pit in a humid or corrosive environment.
When I lived in Hawaii and went out to the Koko Head range on a weekend to work up a load for a new rifle, I wanted to start meaningful load development as quickly as possible. Sure I could shoot 50 rounds, head home and clean the barrel but if I could get the barrel to settle down by shooting and cleaning after each of the first 3 to 10 rounds on the first day I saw that as a good thing.
Gale McMillan said many interesting and thoughtful things throughout his life, but his comments re barrel break-in are not among them.
CoalTrain49
Member
After owning two beautiful stainless Ruger Hawkeye 77 MkII's, it's stunning to me that they would take so much time to craft such a lovely gun with such crap barrels. If my Rugers shot like my Savages (that cost 1/2 as much) I never would have sold them.
Yeah, I'd rather not think about it much least I get depressed. Great actions tho.
I think we confuse the purpose of barrel break in.
Barrel break in is to smooth the barrel and not pack every imperfection with copper fouling. Barrels stay cleaner (less copper fouling) after proper break in. As an added benefit a non copper fouled barrel may shoot better longer.
Barrel break in is to smooth the barrel and not pack every imperfection with copper fouling. Barrels stay cleaner (less copper fouling) after proper break in. As an added benefit a non copper fouled barrel may shoot better longer.
Wonder how long this thread will last.....
I did a ton of reading on this, both on the net and in actual books and magazines....you remember that stuff it had paper in it....yea the same stuff you use to wipe your bottom with...amazing aint it.
I came away with a yea it COULD help.....but the amount it MIGHT help is going to be offset my human error in the shooting process.
And the processes are all over the board....even from Mfg. to Mfg....even the people that have been making these things for 200+ years don't agree on "barrel break-in"
I came away with the impression that it was like oil additives....if you think it will help you are going to be darn sure it is going to help and you are going to be very....ahh....well....rabid about defending your actions. No one wants to think that he wasted time and ammo doing something that was totally pointless.
If the thread is still open and if I can find it I came across an article in an older magazine on this....where they too the human out as much as possible. Shooting factory ammo (that stuff is not the same from round to round) in the "same" rifles locked in a vice. One they just shot, the other they followed the makers barrel breakin to the letter. No real difference.
A gun is a very complex machine, so much goes into a gun that will make it a good shooter or one that is not....we all read stories on that one rifle that just sucked and got past QC somehow.
You are not going to change anyone mind that think that doing the break in is really helping the gun....but in my two brain cells think...it just is not worth it....no human is that good to see it vs the exact same rifle (that can never be tested) is any better.
I did a ton of reading on this, both on the net and in actual books and magazines....you remember that stuff it had paper in it....yea the same stuff you use to wipe your bottom with...amazing aint it.
I came away with a yea it COULD help.....but the amount it MIGHT help is going to be offset my human error in the shooting process.
And the processes are all over the board....even from Mfg. to Mfg....even the people that have been making these things for 200+ years don't agree on "barrel break-in"
I came away with the impression that it was like oil additives....if you think it will help you are going to be darn sure it is going to help and you are going to be very....ahh....well....rabid about defending your actions. No one wants to think that he wasted time and ammo doing something that was totally pointless.
If the thread is still open and if I can find it I came across an article in an older magazine on this....where they too the human out as much as possible. Shooting factory ammo (that stuff is not the same from round to round) in the "same" rifles locked in a vice. One they just shot, the other they followed the makers barrel breakin to the letter. No real difference.
A gun is a very complex machine, so much goes into a gun that will make it a good shooter or one that is not....we all read stories on that one rifle that just sucked and got past QC somehow.
You are not going to change anyone mind that think that doing the break in is really helping the gun....but in my two brain cells think...it just is not worth it....no human is that good to see it vs the exact same rifle (that can never be tested) is any better.
That enlarges bore and groove diameters a few ten-thousandths inch. David Tubb mentions this about his breaking in bullets. That's enough to degrade accuracy in some barrels.
Newtosavage
Member
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Fortunately for me, "breaking in" my barrels also doubles as fire-forming brass so either way it's a win-win. 
old heeler
Member
I have few Bartlein barrel rifles and they put this out for their barrels.
https://bartleinbarrels.com/cleaning-and-breaking-in-guide-lines/
I don't know if they still do but Rem sold 40x rifles from custom shop and you get test target with 2-5 shot group and they never cleaned between those groups.
I shot BR and we loaded at the range and clean between relays and I know some top shooters when they replace barrels they had old ones already sold. I sold few to varmint hunters.
I think most are good at making their own choice.
https://bartleinbarrels.com/cleaning-and-breaking-in-guide-lines/
I don't know if they still do but Rem sold 40x rifles from custom shop and you get test target with 2-5 shot group and they never cleaned between those groups.
I shot BR and we loaded at the range and clean between relays and I know some top shooters when they replace barrels they had old ones already sold. I sold few to varmint hunters.
I think most are good at making their own choice.
Damon555
Member
There are probably a 100 threads about breaking in a barrel on THR.....Don't waste your ammo. Just shoot the rifle.....
I don't know if barrel break in is real, but I make it a practice to clean my non-chromed barrel with a copper solvent after every trip to the range. I use Bore Tech Eliminator (effective and no smell). This way, the first shot is always through a clean barrel, so IF there is a lapping effect, it will occur on every first shot. This way, I don't waste ammo or needlessly wear out my barrel, avoid galvanic corrosion, and I perform clean barrel shots that smooth out imperfections IF there is any validity to barrel break in.
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