Barrel fouling

[LiquidTension]

I have a Pro Carry and I just can't seem to get the barrel clean. I've tried many different ways to get it clean, but none of them work. I've tried soaking it in Brite Bore (the Remington stuff), CLP, and Hoppes. I even let the barrel soak overnight in Simple Green one time (don't try this unless you want your barrel to become discolored). The only thing that will get the crud out of the barrel is taking a 45degree probe and physically scraping the stuff out of the barrel. I don't like doing this because I'm afraid that I'm going to damage the barrel, and even this method doesn't get it all. This happens no matter what kind of ammo I use - S&B, Hydra Shocks, Winchester white box, UMC, everything. What am I doing wrong?

This only happens in my Kimber, not in my MkII or any of my rifles. You guys think a bore snake would help? I used one for the first time on my FAL a few weeks ago and I was amazed at how well it worked.

 

[Detritus]

need more info

we talking Copper, Lead, hard carbon Deposits, what???

the type of fouling makes a difference in what will and will not work.

and it fouls this bad regardless of ammo brand/ loading used eh? well could it be a BAD barrel??


if scraping seems to work but you;re afraid of damage from a steel probe, you might want to look into a "Lewis type Lead remover". which uses a brass screen a litle smaller than a cleaning patch and a sort of tensionable rubber jag (holds the brass "patch" against the side of the bore) to scrape the bore clean.

personally i'd find out what was causing such hard fouling and do my best to, not use that component/ammo type/brand, or bring about the responsible conditions.

 

[LiquidTension]

Like I said, different types of ammo seem to have no effect. I doubt it's lead buildup because I've never put anything other than jacketed ammo through the gun.

 

[HSMITH]

Lap the barrel. For it to foul like that it is rough, as are most recent Kimbers. I don't know if their tooling is getting used up or what, but the bores of most I have seen foul BADLY and are a real PITA to get clean. You can also get a firelapping kit if you handload that will save a lot of hassle. Otherwise lap by hand.

 

[Handy]

Consider leaving it alone. Fouling, unless it is affecting accuracy, doesn't hurt anything. With normal cleaning, your barrel will likely never get beyond its current fouling level.

You could lap the barrel. You would be trading rough surface for bore size. I won't say the lapping will make your barrel wear out much faster, or lower velocity and accuracy; but roughness and fouling certainly won't do any of those things.

Do you want the gun to shoot well, or just clean well?

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Have you tried Hoppe's Copper Solvent cleaner? If it's copper fouling, this is the best thing I've tried. Use it in my SAR-48 with great results. I can't say anything about new Kimbers, as I have one, and I don't have the same problem as you.

 

[JohnKSa]

Hoppe's Benchrest #9 is a good copper solvent.

Remington Bore Cleaner is a good abrasive cleaner that won't harm your bore--Carefully follow the instructions on the side or it's useless.

Get a good bronze-silicon bore brush in the proper size

Get some Break-free CLP.

Get some cheap "Nitro-Solvent".

When you get home from shooting, spray some CLP in the bore and leave it while you clean the rest of the gun.

Now, push a patch through the bore and run your bore brush, soaked in nitro-solvent, through the bore 10 or 20 times.

Patch it again.

Use the Remington Bore cleaner--following the instructions on the bottle.

If that doesn't get it, you have a couple of ways to go. If it's copper fouling--usually visible in the grooves as copper colored streaks, then you can use the Benchrest #9.

For barrels with heavy copper fouling, you may need to do the #9, then a go-round with the Remington cleaner, then repeat the #9 treatment.

If it's a gray crud in the corners of the land/groove interface, then you can use the Remington Bore cleaner with the bore brush.

I've found that if a gun hasn't been cleaned down to metal for a long time, you may have to keep cleaning for awhile using the various solvents/cleaners in turn and brushing in between to take off the layers that have built up.

One nice thing is that everytime you clean a barrel with this method--getting down to bare metal after every range session--the less it will foul the next time.

Quit scraping your bore with a probe--gun barrel steel isn't hardened as much as you might think.

 

[LiquidTension]

Thanks John, I'll have to make a trip to the store tomorrow to pick up some other cleaning supplies. The gun shoots better than I do, it just irks me to have nastiness in the barrel. I like my guns to be clean after I clean them!

 

[HSMITH]

Sweets 7.62 solvent is a LOT better than Hoppes Benchrest in my opinion....

 

[Handy]

Careful mixing bore cleaners. This explains it:

http://www.schuemann.com/clean2.htm

 

[sm]

Finally cleaned some range guns, a couple were Pro Carry models.
These hadn't been cleaned in 9-12 months, using jacketed bullets. Chambers kept clean and dry and a spot of lube when needed. I soaked in Kleenbore Copper Cutter [tm] for about 30 min, nylon brush , tight patches. I personally put 4k rds through one of these Pro Carry models, in that time frame. I have no idea of total round count.

I believe in what McMillian and Scheumann have to say about bbls.

I did for awhile keep one of my CCW bores clean only because "if" I were to be stopped and questioned, this would alleviate some doubt.

My main concern on any firearm has always been the chamber. My climate dictates I watch for external corrosion.

My personal CCW(s); I have never used any copper solvent or bronze brush on two of them. I have a Kimber that has only had nylon brushes -if and when I use a brush. For the longest time I used only Kleenbore formula 3. I ran out and used what the office had because I shot in the snow and mud. I used BF CLP that day. Another time I used Eeozx because, I like to fall down in the mud it seems-again I used what was handy.

 

[LiquidTension]

So what I'm gathering from all of this information is that I should NOT use a brass brush, and I should NOT switch bore solvents because of the risk of chemical reaction. If the stuff I'm using isn't working, and I shouldn't use anything different, how is it going to get clean??? I'm confused. Unless somebody says differently, I'm gonna buy some copper solvent and a nylon brush tomorrow. I hate trying to comprehend chemistry at 5:45am. I'm good at it, but I've NEVER liked it. Physics is a MUCH easier subject.

What do you think the chances are that I can convince Kimber that their barrel is defective and therefore they should send me a new one for free? That'd be the easiest way out

[edit]

Now I'm scared that I've done irreparable damage to the bore of my favorite weapon. I tried using Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber a few times to get rid of crud in the barrel, and it contains chlorinated stuff I read the link that Handy posted and now I'm all worried about it

 

[sm]

LT
I survived chemistry and since I didn't have to have physics...I may be dumb, but I ain't stupid

I really would be surprised if your bbl is defective. I use real tight patches. I allow my bbl to soak. Like dried egg on a plate, one can scrub to death, or soak and not get a tired elbow and a pile of patches.

One can get so many opinions and the debate will continue forever on what products and methods to use. Some things have proven themselves over time. Heck we may find out tomorrow peanut butter is the way to go to alleviate fouling.

I have seen muzzle crowns damaged. I have seen stainless brushes used and really cause damage. These are some examples of things that are "a given" and generally accepted.

I personally started to use nylon because a) the solvent will eat bronze and then the diameter is not tight-accelerates wear if you will. This can be minimized by a thorough rinse when used. b) I subscribe to the above mentioned bbl makers. In fact Volquartson [sp?} does not even recommend a brush to be used on 22lr or the warranty is void. He only recommends nylon when and if one uses one on 22 magnum.

I soak, I used the Otis pull through system quite often because I can ( for me) get a really tight patch, I don't take a chance of hitting the crown, I don't have to draga dirty brush/patch/rod back throu the bore. I actually started doing this for lever actions and the system just became a safe practice for other platforms.

I use a muzzle guard when I do use a rod, I remove patch /brush and slowly pull back through so as to not bump the inside.

Then again , I may only use a wooden q-tip and swab chamber and feed ramp. I may go 1k rds before I clean...thoroughly.

I check , I inspect, I field strip and my CCW is safe and reliable, everthing else may have been cleaned and lubed, I don't worry about the bores o n my Kimbers. The chamber is clean and dry. I even use a spent casing to assure the area after the chamber is clean before the rifling.

I appreciate your concern,these things ain't cheap. I bet your bbl is fine and just needs to be shot more t smooth things out.

 

[sm]

aarrgg I'm having trouble getting the "submit" to work... I couldn't edit so I'll clarify.

LT , many solvents can do harm when soaking, That is why I rarely use ammonia based stuff. that is why I don't use a bunch of various solvents and lubes, some thngs don't mix, If I don't know-- I don't.

I didn't have all these fancy things to use growing up, nor did I have the money. I still use hot soap and water to clean, ZIppo lighter fluid to degrease. Hot water stiil the best for BP , even with all the new fangled products. When I had money I bought Hoppe's no. 9. The formula changed, but is still pretty good.

I won a bunch of Kleenbore stuff as a wee lad and just kinda stayed with their solvent and Formula 3. I have a K frame that has never had anything but Formula 3 used on it since bought in '82. I have soaked the lead, and metal fouling out using only this product. Degreased with lighter fluid. It will outlive me.

 

[stevelyn]

MPro-7.

That stuff cleaned junk out of my BHP barrel that Tetra Copper Remover left behind.
Just make sure you follow it up with a lube/preservative after cleaning. It does strip oil and grease from the pores of the metal.
I use Break-Free and noticed there were a lot of FP-10 fans here.

 

[DontShootMe]

Scrubbing Technique

I use a nylon bore brush, and I scrub the h3ll out of my barrels.

I used to only scrub back and forth inside the barrel a couple of times, and noticed fouling starting to build up.

Now I scrub back and forth as fast as I can for about 30 seconds with the nylon brush soaked with BreakFree.

Never had any fouling remain since I began using that technique.

It's such a nice feeling to know you have a gun that's spotless inside and out.

 

[pale horse]

When I frist started shooting my 1911 I had the same problem. I started using a bore snake and it solved the problem for a little while. Now if I have a goodly amount of junk in the barrel I use white kerosen on a nylon brush and lead remover as well.

 

[LiquidTension]

re1973 - I know the bbl isn't defective, I was just wondering if I could convince Kimber that it is hehehe. Thanks for all the info. Unfortunately I won't be able to make it to the store for a while, as I have 14 pages of stuff to write by tomorrow at 8am and then another seven for thursday, not to mention 3 tests and then finals. I hate school.

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the responses!