If I had a nichol for every time I've messed up, we could all retire! Love this forum!
Russellc
Barrel life question
- Thread starter LUCKYDAWG13
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If I had a nichol for every time I've messed up, we could all retire! Love this forum!
Russellc
You will need to change the bolt as well. ( to go from 6.5 CM or .308 TO .223 ) 6.5 and 308 will use the same one.
Russellc
That is sort of where I am as well. The 12 can be had for less than 500, IIRC Cabelas has them for 419. Also under consideration is the 10, which seems under 700. Anyone know what the difference is, other than cost? I am not sure. Thinking of using the barreled action out of the 12 on the planned .223 gun, we'll see about the larger bore version.
Russellc
Bart B. posted this a while back:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/regarding-barrel-wear.822065/#post-10562742
There's an interesting article at Long Range Hunting about the development of the 6.5 Creedmoor. Part of the design was a "quench zone", regarding the shoulder and neck to mitigate the flame temperature in the throat for increased barrel life.
I think the .308 is a fine choice. Accuracy actually improves with the first thousand rounds or two.
Ammo is ubiquitously available and relatively less expensive than some of the trendier stuff. There are amazingly high BC bullets available for it, developed in Palma competition.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/regarding-barrel-wear.822065/#post-10562742
There's an interesting article at Long Range Hunting about the development of the 6.5 Creedmoor. Part of the design was a "quench zone", regarding the shoulder and neck to mitigate the flame temperature in the throat for increased barrel life.
I think the .308 is a fine choice. Accuracy actually improves with the first thousand rounds or two.
Ammo is ubiquitously available and relatively less expensive than some of the trendier stuff. There are amazingly high BC bullets available for it, developed in Palma competition.
What? No one suggested using cast boolits? Seriously, one proven way to extend barrel life is to use cast boolits for casual shooting of course you will have to reload as well as gas check them and use hard alloy for higher speeds.
I think the jury is still out on powder coating or the Hi Tech coating for cast boolits on its overall accuracy and effects on barrel wear.
I think the jury is still out on powder coating or the Hi Tech coating for cast boolits on its overall accuracy and effects on barrel wear.
That's correct BUT savage makes the bolt head change easy too
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LUCKYDAWG13
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Yes I do cast my own boolits and Roll my own too I dont powder coat
this is not the pistol forum. nobody uses cast bullets for precision rifle in 308win, 6.5cm or similar.
That's what I thought too, before I ran into and old guy shooting cast with gas checks in a Griffin & Howe '03. He made a several round clover leaf at 200yds.
said he didn't like shooting in competitions
Cast bullets can be very accurate, but it adds a whole other dimension to the complexity. The hardness of the bullet and the speed of the powder become interdependent. And the speed isn't just fast or slow, it's about the pressure curve having enough "kick" to obturate the bullet into the bore.
Big7
Member
The THROAT is what you are worried about, NOT the barrel.
Get a reamer when you start having problems.
Bump it .010-015".. Shoot another 3000, load a little longer and carry on.
6000 rounds is a lot for any gun. Just sayin'.
And.. You can always free bore like Roy Weatherby. NO PROBLEM!
Get a reamer when you start having problems.
Bump it .010-015".. Shoot another 3000, load a little longer and carry on.
6000 rounds is a lot for any gun. Just sayin'.
And.. You can always free bore like Roy Weatherby. NO PROBLEM!
My comment was partially in jest but given that I don't shoot long range (most ranges around here are about 100 yards or less), use iron sights, and my milsurps (some are over a century old) have often led a hard life with almost irreplaceable worn bores, lead bullets do allow accurate shooting sometimes in those old barrels that look like sewer pipes without stressing the receiver and bolt with high pressures.
If you are doing casual shooting to get used to the trigger, working the bolt, etc. then lead bullets do offer a reasonable way to extend that barrel life for the competition. If you don't care about the cost of replacing a barrel like many of the high power competition folks, then don't do it.
If you are doing casual shooting to get used to the trigger, working the bolt, etc. then lead bullets do offer a reasonable way to extend that barrel life for the competition. If you don't care about the cost of replacing a barrel like many of the high power competition folks, then don't do it.
Wow, I had no idea you change only part of the bolt! Just because of cost to performance ratio, my first bolt rifle will be Savage.That's correct BUT savage makes the bolt head change easy too
Russellc
someguy2800
Member
I recently changed my 223 savage over to 308. Had to replace barrel, bolt head, extractor and shorten the bolt stop. The extractor from the 223 sat a little further in when installed in the 308 bolt and would not ride over the rim on the 308 when chambering. I ground it down in steps, went too far, welded it back up with my tig welder, ground it down perfect, lost it when it flew out of my hand while polishing it, ordered a new one, found the old one, returned the new one, and now I have a functional 308 rifle. I think that is the correct procedure for the swap. I also welded a piece of stainless to cover the mag opening and make my own "target action".
Sunray
Member
"...243 will have roughly half the barrel life..." Nonsensical internet myth.
A target rifle and a 'range' rifle have different accuracy requirements and standards. Neither of which involves just 3,000 rounds in any calibre. Even different target rifles have different standards. A bench rest rifle will have far more stringent requirement than any other rifle. So will Jim's M1A NM. The BR rifle is about group size. The M1A is about consistency at 300 plus yards. If(really when) the BR rifle won't group under 1/10" it's considered shot out. If an M1A consistently shoots 3" at 300(1 MOA) it's considered a miracle.
For the average guy who is shooting because it's fun, barrel life isn't an issue with any chambering. Mind you, if you want the thing to last virtually forever, shoot cast bullets. Isn't the same though.
A target rifle and a 'range' rifle have different accuracy requirements and standards. Neither of which involves just 3,000 rounds in any calibre. Even different target rifles have different standards. A bench rest rifle will have far more stringent requirement than any other rifle. So will Jim's M1A NM. The BR rifle is about group size. The M1A is about consistency at 300 plus yards. If(really when) the BR rifle won't group under 1/10" it's considered shot out. If an M1A consistently shoots 3" at 300(1 MOA) it's considered a miracle.
For the average guy who is shooting because it's fun, barrel life isn't an issue with any chambering. Mind you, if you want the thing to last virtually forever, shoot cast bullets. Isn't the same though.
The_Next_Generation
Member
Fwiw, the Ruger Precision (if that's the Ruger you were referring to in your previous response) does offer a barrel-swap feature that is almost identical to the Savage actions.
You can't swap the bolt head to accommodate a smaller case though, so advantage goes to the Savage there.
Good luck with the project! Keep us posted
You can't swap the bolt head to accommodate a smaller case though, so advantage goes to the Savage there.
Good luck with the project! Keep us posted
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LUCKYDAWG13
Member
no was looking at the Ruger American PredatorFwiw, the Ruger Precision (if that's the Ruger you were referring to in your previous response) does offer a barrel-swap feature that is almost identical to the Savage actions.
You can't swap the bolt head to accommodate a smaller case though, so advantage goes to the Savage there.
Good luck with the project! Keep us posted
Yup the only other one I know that makes life so easy is the Thompson center dimension.
Excuse my lack of knowledge here, but when you "shorten the bolt stop" could you elaborate a touch? Im not sure where the bolt stop is located! Would this make it impossible to switch back to .223, or not?
Thanks for any help dumbing it down for my understanding!
Russellc
someguy2800
Member
Pleases see attached. The bolt stop on a savage hits a piece that floats and rides on the bolt. I believe savage calls it a baffle. The ones for a 223 are longer than the 308 rifles so the bolt throw is shorter. The 223 internal magazines also use a spacer in the back so the cartridges sit farther forward in the stock. If you convert a 223 rifle to a longer cartridge such as a 308 or creedmore the bolt will not go back far enough to eject a loaded cartridge and if you have a magazine it will not go back far enough to pick up a new cartridge. Cutting the leg off the baffle lets the bolt ride the full length back in the receiver before hitting the bolt stop. I have not tried it but it should still work fine if converted back to 223. Or you could just buy the correct baffle and keep the original.
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