Basic Questions on Personal Gun Manufacture

[barnbwt]

I've checked around here and elsewhere online, and I can't seem to find a good consenus on the "rules" of legal manufacture (or "smithing," I guess) of semi-automatic firearms. Specifically, I have dreams of one day making a semi-auto handgun.

I know one must follow rules when making any NFA items that ensure they are for "personal use" only; not selling them, first and foremost. But, since personal manufacture of machine guns is illegal, I assume the ATF would need to inspect/test or otherwise sign off on a semi-auto design stating it is not easily converted to FA.

What does this process look like? Does the ATF keep or destroy the guns being tested as part of this? Are they sworn to confidentiality if the design contains patentable elements, or will the design be available for any enterprising agent with a phone-camera? I have no plans to make a gun for sale, but if the design proves very successful, I would like the option to "fill out the paperwork" to pursue a business with my designs protected.

Most manufacture NFA topics I read about were related shortening things, putting foregrips on handguns, and (illegal by MG registry) FA conversions of currently SA firearms. The legality of finishing an original SA design from whole cloth doesn't seem to come up much (I wonder why there's no small scale firearms innovation in the US, anymore )

I figured I'd give the brain trust here a shot at answering this riddle Thanks!

TCB

 

[smalls]

You may not make any NFA items before you fill out the forms and pay your $200 tax, then receive your stamp. You may not make a machine gun, period, unless you are an SOT manufacturer.

You can build your own gun, as long as you don't cross the NFA line.

 

[F-111 John]

If you're asking does the ATF inspect all home grown weapons to give them their seal of approval, no they do not. They will deal with you if you violate NFA laws if and when you are discoverd during the normal course of life. Like making demo videos online, or bragging down at the local waterhole and having the wrong person listen in, etc.

 

[Sam1911]

You certainly can write to the tech branch and ask them to give their opinion on the design you're considering.

You don't have to check with them before you build, though. If you make something that fires full-auto, you will be judged on that fact.

What you're probably thinking of is that they have written opinions declaring certain specific designs to be "readily convertible" to full-auto, and thus machine guns in their eyes. You shouldn't be building one of those, and you could submit a design for their review if you think your design just MIGHT be too close for comfort.

But you don't have to check with them or register with them, or send your gun in for review, if you're home building a non NFA firearm.

 

[barnbwt]

You can build your own gun, as long as you don't cross the NFA line.

Ya'know, I wasn't planning on it...

I was also under the (wrong) impression that home-grown guns needed NFA approvals/stamps. They do not. I did some checking and saw that NFA is allowed with approval and stamp, but full-auto is a no-go . Oh, well, a FA handgun wouldn't work that great anyway...*looks at floor*. At least I'll save 200$ on my prototype phase (silencer comes later )

What you're probably thinking of is that they have written opinions declaring certain specific designs to be "readily convertible" to full-auto, and thus machine guns in their eyes. You shouldn't be building one of those, and you could submit a design for their review if you think your design just MIGHT be too close for comfort.

My real concern is because my idea isn't based on any idea I've seen before, and I'd rather not find out "after the fact" that it was easy to convert to auto. I'm doing some research on this now, since I'm in the middle of designing the sear/disconnector mechanism (last portion that needs design work!), and I have to decide what method of activation to try a design on. My design at least fires from a "closed-bolt" (though my bolt doesn't really close), which I know is a big plus in the "convertability" metric.

I'm more paranoid somebody would be bound and determined to get the gun to fire auto in the lab, and find a way to do it easily that I hadn't thought of . Also, doubles due to malfunction are a bigger problem for such an untested design, since it may fail in ways I haven't forseen. I was also curious if the BATFE gave special attention to semi-auto builders, simply because they are more likely to make NFA no-no's than a guy making a bolt-gun.

I'm glad to hear it sounds like I don't have to submit my design for vetting like handguns in California, or something. I will probably pick the brains of their tech-branch, just in case they uncover something horribly unsafe I missed, and to make sure I cross the I's and dot the T's...

At least I still have the freedom to blow myself up through my own stupidity; am I right?

TCB

(takin' all bets; how many letters in the Bureau's name at the end of the decade?)

 

[Bubbles]

But, since personal manufacture of machine guns is illegal, I assume the ATF would need to inspect/test or otherwise sign off on a semi-auto design stating it is not easily converted to FA.

Here's the problem you're going to encounter. Let's say you do come up with a brand spanking new design for a semi-auto firearm, get it patented, etc. At this point let's even say you haven't made it, you just have a bunch of CAD drawings for it.

You ask ATF for a determination, based on your CAD drawings, on whether or not the design would be considered readily convertible to a machine gun. They will respond that you need to send a prototype for them to test. Others have BTDT. They want to put hands on a sample to mess with.

So, what now? If you make a prototype and submit it, and the ATF says it's not readily convertible and it's a legit semi-auto, your life is good. If not, then you - a non manufacturer with no SOT - have just supplied the ATF with a machine gun that you admitted that 1) is unregistered, and 2) you built yourself. Oops. That's really not gonna go well for you.

 

[Sam1911]

Well, the thing is that, if you're building a gun for yourself, and you aren't out there firing it full-auto, it's a little hard to picture just how you'd end up with the gun in the BATFE investigators' hands trying their best to make it go full-auto.

Now, if your gun double, triples, or goes "runaway" at the range, you may indeed find yourself in that position. But then a letter won't help you anyway.

If you are thinking that someday far off just MAYBE this gun might be a product you'd get into making for sale (with the appropriate licenses, of course) then you'd want a tech branch letter saying it is not "readily convertible" in their opinion. That saves you (in theory) from having all your product confiscated because they decide that it maybe could go FA.

 

[Sam1911]

So, what now? If you make a prototype and submit it, and the ATF says it's not readily convertible and it's a legit semi-auto, your life is good. If not, then you - a non manufacturer with no SOT - have just supplied the ATF with a machine gun that you admitted that 1) is unregistered, and 2) you built yourself. Oops. That's really not gonna go well for you.

It certainly would be unpleasant. But I'd have a hard time believing the BATFE is going to go for the big conviction based on you clear desire to comply with the law and get their approval. (Even building the prototype at their request!) ESPECIALLY if the gun had never gone full-auto, but was simply declared by them to be "readily convertible. Confiscation? Sure, of course. But prosecution?

Of course, I haven't been in that position and that hasn't happened to me, and truth is stranger than fiction!

 

[barnbwt]

^^^That's kinda my thought, too. I'd like to think the Fed's aren't inhuman tyrants . My current plan is to build a "concept" prototype through photolithography (rapid prototyping) or something, just to demonstrate the cycling of the action. If that works worth a damn (biiiiig "if") then I'd probably get a firearms-law attorney and an ATF agent on the horn to make darn sure I do it right. For now, I'm just curious on the nature of the process homebuilders have to follow. Sounds like there really isn't one

TCB

 

[mboylan]

If your design fires from an open bolt, it is illegal. If it fires from a closed bolt and does not have a secondary auto sear, it is likely legal.