Battle rifles and short barrels

[Evil Monkey]

How short can you go on a battle rifle (308) and still have the weapon be practical in combat?

Can 16 inch barrels still be acceptable for the marksman rifle role?

How do they compare with assault rifles in CQB in terms of noise and flash? I suppose they're bigger in a shorter battle rifle but would it be manageable or ridiculous?

 

[Onmilo]

The Crane Naval Warfare Depot M14 EBR uses an 18" barrel.

The rifle is considered more than effective to ranges of 300 meters.

These rifles are being issued to scout sniper secondary spotters and Army designated marksmen so I would assume the military considers them quite effective.

The H&K G3 uses a 16" barrel and when scoped and fitted with specialized trigger packs they fulfilled the sniper on the cheap role, and still do, quite admirably.

 

[General Geoff]

Any carbine-style .308 rifle (18" or shorter barrel) will be fine for CQB use. Depending on the stock used, it will most likely be a bit longer than an AR equivalent, and also a bit heavier. But that is the price you must pay to have a full-power rifle cartridge at your disposal.

"Springfield Armory M1A: Turning cover into concealment since 1974."


As for muzzle flash and noise, the decibel level isn't appreciably higher than a .223 AR. Different pitch (deeper), but that's about it. And yeah, you should be fine to well past 300 yards with a .308 carbine.

 

[SnakeEater]

The H&K G3 uses a 16" barrel and when scoped and fitted with specialized trigger packs they fulfilled the sniper on the cheap role, and still do, quite admirably.

The G3 has a 17.7" barrel. The sniper variants, PSG-1, MSG90 have 25.6" and 23.6" barrels respectively.

 

[Nightcrawler]

I don't know where this myth that .308 is not useful from a shorter barrel came from. .223 is by far more dependent on velocity than .308, and yet no one has issues with 12" or 14" barreled .223 weapons.

The SCAR-Heavy, now being adopted by USSOCOM, has three barrel lengths. A 20" heavier "sharpshooter" barrel, a 14.5" or so "standard" barrel, and an 11" "CQB" barrel.

Now, for long range sharpshooting, I'd go with a roughly 20" barrel. The reason being is that the cut in muzzle velocity is more pronounced at range, and in the DMR role you're not going to be house-clearing anyway, so the extra handiness doesn't count for much.

18" is a good compromise if you want a rifle capable of either-or. My FAL has a 16" barrel, but it's topped with an Aimpoint, so long-range sharpshooting isn't its role anyway.

 

[HorseSoldier]

My 16.25" DSA Para-FAL can, and has, easily shot minute of man on steel chest plates at 400 meters if the shooter can do his job to get it there. Obviously it's not pushing as much thump as if it has a 20+ inch barrel, but I imagine it would still be plenty to ruin somone's day.

The main draw back to 7.62x51 rifles and carbines for CQB is the recoil slowing follow up shots and transition to additional targets compared to a 5.56mm weapon (or other assault rifle type cartridge). The DSA rep who posts on here and others have mentioned the Hornary TAP 110 grain round as a solution to this issue, though I have not had a chance to lay hands on a bunch to try it out.

 

[Onmilo]

I do believe the 450mm barrel length includes the flash suppressor,,,,
The barrel proper measure 413mm or 16.26"
Regardless I was also not mentioning the product specific sniper variations either,,,,
Just referring to the plain jane G3A3ZF

 

[DMK]

I don't know where this myth that .308 is not useful from a shorter barrel came from. .223 is by far more dependent on velocity than .308, and yet no one has issues with 12" or 14" barreled .223 weapons.

12" or 14" barreled rifles are not long range weapons regardless of the caliber. Sure, the military is using M4s out to whatever range, but the AR carbines were designed to be close-in weapons. Seals use a 16" match barreled M4 type weapon in a DMR role, but it's a multi-use carbine. It needs to be able to do CQB also.

I have a FAL with an 18" and another with a 17" (and a brake making 18.5" total length). The shorter barrels waste a lot of powder in a flash and bang, where it could have been used to gain more velocity.

 

[MassMark]

SOCOM-16 with only a Trijicon Tripower on deck easily hits torso sized targets at 400-yards. Have not tried it with a true optical scope, but is difficult with irons due to the wide blade, (intended for CQB). There's a lot of mythology and hype from purists about "sawed off rifles".... Some may be valid and I certainly would not consider a SOCOM-16 to be "sniper grade", but when "folks in the know" insist it's "useless past 100-yards" - I just chuckle a bit...

 

[DMK]

Some may be valid and I certainly would not consider a SOCOM-16 to be "sniper grade", but when "folks in the know" insist it's "useless past 100-yards" - I just chuckle a bit...

I don't think barrel length has anything to do with accuracy really (although a shorter barrel of the same diameter is stiffer and less prone to whip).

However, the more velocity you can get out of a round, the farther it will go before dropping. That means less holdover at longer ranges, or a longer "point blank" range.

It all depends on your intended use of the rifle.

 

[Essex County]

Have owned .308's as short as 183/4 inches. I think a couple of inches more is a lot nicer..........Essex