BE-86 loads for 357 mag

[peterk1234]

I have loaded a number of 357 mag rounds with 7.2 gr of BE-86. Nice comfortable load. I am interested in working up a stronger load (just seems appropriate for 357 mag - go big or go home). I have worked up to 7.8 grains so far and there are zero signs of any pressure issues. I am comfortable at this point of taking it to Alliant's max load of 8.1 gr.

My question is this; I have never worked up to a max load with any of my reloading. Assuming that the powder measure could vary .1 to .2 grains, is there an issue going above max recommendations, or are data charts from the manufacturers typically fairly conservative?

Thx

Pete

 

[Walkalong]

is there an issue going above max recommendations,

Yes.

or are data charts from the manufacturers typically fairly conservative?

No.

Stick with tested data.

I generally use an average charge weight. If I list 4.0 Grs it is an average unless I include a note that it is a max not average. If I am close to or at max I always use a "Max, not average" powder charge. In other words, all charges will be at that weight or less.

 

[peterk1234]

Thank you.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

is there an issue going above max recommendations, or are data charts from the manufacturers typically fairly conservative?

Thx

Pete

Pete
Walk along’s answer is not exactly correct.
The extra safe and conservative answer is what he said.

The more complex one is that the answer really depends on many factors.

So, it’ll depend on the source, the testing methods, the guns used for testing, etc.

Now PLEASE don’t take this as saying going over max is safe. I don’t recommend it. But it may be be ok. On the other hand it may be fatal

I dont know if going over max .1 grain would be an issue for you. My GUESS is that if you’re at max and don’t have any signs of over pressure you’ll be ok. But I’m not willing to say that you will.

I will say that if you’re not familiar with understanding the various manuals, how to determine signs of over pressure, and are still learning about loads at. Max, to don’t go over max. Please get more experience in the areas you need to and learn when it’s ok and when it’ll cause harm for your combinations if you choose to go there.

Personally, I tend to load conservatively. So I check multiple sources and don’t go over the lowest one I find at this time.

 

[Walkalong]

The extra safe and conservative answer is what he said.

Especially for beginners who need to ask, and that includes all the lurkers and readers who are new to reloading. As a general answer to a general question, that was the right answer.

 

[eo1bart]

Recently I was looking for a mid-range .357 load for a 158gr LSWC. My best load tested was 7.3 gr of BE-86. I was getting 1,180fps out of a 6" barrel, and the load was super accurate so that's as far as I went.
For hot loads beyond that I use 2400 or AA#9

 

[Toprudder]

I really like BE86 for mid to slightly hot loads in both 357 and 44 mag, but you will never get full magnum velocity with it before you hit max pressure. In my experience, BE86 will be about 150 fps slower than the true magnum powders, like 2400, H-110, N-110, etc. So, your "go big or go home" comment indicates to me that you really need to look to the magnum powders. For barrels under ~8", I like 2400 and N-100. But for long barrels, I really like 300-MP.

But, you also ask about going up to the max Alliant load of 8.1gn BE86. I see no problem with that, but work up to it in steps, looking for pressure signs.

 

[bullseye308]

I avoid max loads for many reasons. If you are looking for more boom in your 357 definitely look to 2400 at near max charges and you should be happy. There are so many calibers and powders available it just isn’t worth taking the chance. If what you have doesn’t safely give you the thump you are looking for, either try a different powder, lighter gun, or step up in caliber.

Once you have a few years of experience, a chronograph, and good health insurance, you may feel like pushing the envelope and going beyond published maximums.

 

[peterk1234]

I brought it up to 7.9 gr, so I would have a little room for error in the process. I weighed ever fifth load, just to verify. Tested them at the range and they shot well. No signs of pressure and the brass dropped out of the cylinder nicely.

Getting near max load is a new world to me. I have four different manuals to refer to but published data for BE-86 is limited. So far I have only found Alliant's data (which is what I use). I have only loaded around 25,000 rounds since starting to reload, but I have always loaded below the minimum recommendations. I have not found a need to get anywhere near max loads for the type of shooting we do. My biggest concern is accuracy of measuring if I am going to increase power. My Hornady LNL press is dead nuts accurate, but I have set up the 357 on my Lee turret because I will do only low volume runs with it. The drums can get finicky at times, so I feel I have to be just a bit more careful. I shoot a lot of 38 special out of our 5 inch 686 Pro Plus. It just seems appropriate that a 357 load should have some boom factor when shot out of that gun My previous 357 loads have been fairly soft.

I appreciate everyone's input. You guys are a great knowledge base. I apologize for the rookie questions, but it is the only way to learn. Pete

 

[Walkalong]

They were good questions.

I shoot 7.3 Grs BE-86 under an X-Treme 158 Gr SWC. It's accurate and fun to shoot. For my "go boom" .357 I use 2400 under a coated 158 Gr SWC. I don't care for the sharp recoil you get when you push the medium speed powders in .357 Mag. 7.5 Grs of BE-86 was also very accurate, but was starting to get "sharp", at least to me anyway.

 

[peterk1234]

@Walkalong thanks for the info. I will have to experiment with a slower powder. I am starting to understand what you guys are talking about when you get into the speed of powders. Now it is time to experiment.

 

[Dudedog]

If you want Full Power .357 stuff you need a slower powder.

Couple powders out there I like H110/W296. (same powder) (haven't tried 2400 since I was happy with H110 and don't shoot a lot of FP .357)
H110 Requires a SP Mag primer, does not download to mid level power but works really well for what is designed to do.

Slower powder is refers to a slower powder burn speed which usually gives you more velocity than a "faster" burn speed powder.

 

[Toprudder]

Couple powders out there I like H110/W296. (same powder) (haven't tried 2400 since I was happy with H110 and don't shoot a lot of FP .357)
H110 Requires a SP Mag primer, does not download to mid level power but works really well for what is designed to do.

Agreed. My impression of 2400 is that it is a more forgiving powder than H-110. Magnum primers not needed (or even preferred) and can be downloaded more.

Not to get too far off-topic, I recently worked up loads in 44mag with both H-110 and N-110. Nearly identical velocities with both (6" barrel) but the H-110 loads were obviously louder, and very visible flash. N-110 burns cleaner, but is so much more expensive than H-110.

 

[peterk1234]

2 pounds of 2400 on its way along with the 8lbs of BE-86 ( for 9mm). I am looking forward to testing and feeling the difference with the mag loads. Pete

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I use 7.4 gr of BE-86 in my .357mag with 158gr Extreme SWC. It is a very accurate load as Walkalong stated. I put all my targets somewhere so I would know where they are and now I can't find them.

 

[Walkalong]

I use 7.4 gr of BE-86 in my .357mag with 158gr Extreme SWC.

I stole the load from tightgroup tiger.

Started at 7.3, did 7.4, ended at 7.5, picked 7.3.

Still have it bookmarked.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ruger-gp100-357-handloads.767118/#post-9704956

 

[someguy2800]

Its not going to blow up if you go .1 grains over, but the wise reloader uses care and restraint.

My favorite full power magnum powders for 357 magnum are H110 for 125 grain bullets and 2400 for 158's. The 125/H110 load is the funnest due to the big recoil and tremendous boom. My favorite 357 load is 21-22 grains of H110 under a 125 jacketed. I have had a couple people that told me a 357 is "no more powerful than a 9mm+p" shoot mine and they were all suitably impressed

 

[ray15]

The 125/H110 load is the funnest due to the big recoil and tremendous boom. My favorite 357 load is 21-22 grains of H110 under a 125 jacketed. I have had a couple people that told me a 357 is "no more powerful than a 9mm+p" shoot mine and they were all suitably impressed

I load 22.0gr. of W296 with a 125XTP per the Hodgdon max load. It did 1485fps average from my 4" GP100 from about 7 yards to keep the muzzle blast from blowing the chrono over. I also tested an xtreme 125gr. plated HP in the same load and it produced an essentially identical velocity average (with lesser accuracy). This is ~620ft-lbs of muzzle energy from a 4" barrel. If there are people loading 9mm to this energy level I hope they shoot elsewhere.

I also enjoy letting people try it at the range. I usually take 6 water jugs with me and save them until the end of my session in case somebody wants to try it. People usually shoot the ground about 5' in front of the jug - but if they hit one react like they'd won the lottery. Fun stuff.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Now, I'm glad I couldn't find my targets Walkalong, You'd put yours on here and embarrass me!

 

[edwardware]

Especially for beginners who need to ask (a)s a general answer to a general question, that was the right answer.

Correct.

As someone has said:
Philosophically, there are three sorts of Reloaders:
1) Recipe followers, who are horrified by deviations from the published data.
2) Experimenters, carefully treading beyond the data, with caution and acceptance of the risks.
3) Fools, boldly going where wise men fear to tread, who will eventually make an ash of themselves.

If you need to ask, be #1.

 

[someguy2800]

I load 22.0gr. of W296 with a 125XTP per the Hodgdon max load. It did 1485fps average from my 4" GP100 from about 7 yards to keep the muzzle blast from blowing the chrono over. I also tested an xtreme 125gr. plated HP in the same load and it produced an essentially identical velocity average (with lesser accuracy). This is ~620ft-lbs of muzzle energy from a 4" barrel. If there are people loading 9mm to this energy level I hope they shoot elsewhere.

I also enjoy letting people try it at the range. I usually take 6 water jugs with me and save them until the end of my session in case somebody wants to try it. People usually shoot the ground about 5' in front of the jug - but if they hit one react like they'd won the lottery. Fun stuff.

LOL yep same here. I shoot 22 grains of W296 with a 125 XTP or 125 zero brand FP. Either does about 1520 FPS from my 4.2” SP101. I love letting people shoot mine, and yep, knobody can hit a darn thing but me.

I shot this at 50 yards the last time I went to the indoor range. The guy next to me came over to look after the first shot because he thought the gun blew up.

 

[ray15]

Nice shooting. I don't struggle to hit steel plates and bottles and jugs, don't do much paper punching with the 357. But suffice it to say I can't shoot that well at 50 yards with iron sights, eyes being what they are.

It's any inherently accurate load, assuming you've got enough crimp. Probably as accurate as anything else, and that accuracy is easily achieved by the handloader.

 

[someguy2800]

I should note, that was shot barrel and wrist rested.

 

[kidneyboy]

I stole the load from tightgroup tiger.

Started at 7.3, did 7.4, ended at 7.5, picked 7.3.

Still have it bookmarked.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ruger-gp100-357-handloads.767118/#post-9704956

Today I did a test ladder of BE86 and Acme 158gr SWC - 7.2, 7.3, 7.4, 7.5, 7.6 through my 4" GP100, 5 rounds each. 7.3 was pretty good but 7.6 was outstanding. Both were pretty snappy but not what I'd call stout loads. Will be putting together 20 or so of each this coming up week for a little more serious testing.

 

[Walkalong]

I should note, that was shot barrel and wrist rested.

Still pretty sporty. Nice shooting.

22 grains of W296 with a 125 XTP

guy next to me came over to look after the first shot because he thought the gun blew up.

I don't doubt that.